8

[VOLiTiAN]

Are you using a doubler by any chance? The left track of the guitars seems looser than the right, for me, it’s losing the impact of the staccato’d parts…

Regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

Hi buddy,

All sounds good, but I’d say the drums either need to be “dried out” or the rest of the mix to be bussed (albeit slightly) to the room reverb, the guitars are a touch too upfront in the mix.

Regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

As useful as it was moving my thread to a different section, my issue wasn’t with how to create a bell tone, it was whether toontrack actually have a sample (and hopefully a link to the sample they captured), can anyone help with this?

We’re seriously considering having to purchase/run BFD alongside SD which will be a pain, but I can’t ask our drummer to skimp on his grooves.

Can anyone help?

Regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

Hi all,

It’s a 9.5″ Zil-Bel made by (you guessed it) Zildjian.

It wasn’t so much that I was trying to keep people guessing, it’s that I’ve been through a lot of options and already looked through the SDX’s respective spec lists and certainly didn’t find a match anywhere, so I was hoping for input from drummers/programmers etc to guide me to a sample pack that might contain what I need as a source tone.

Whitten, do you guys have a link to that specific sample anywhere I can have a peep at? It’s just that I couldn’t find *any* ride cymbal bells which didn’t have the edge masking it 1/2 way through the sample.

We’re trying to mimic our drummer’s live setup, so this is a must, however I don’t want to get the wrong item 🙂

Thanks for your help!

Regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

No-one? Nobody’s heard a sample even close to this in any of the expansions?

Sales opportunity for toontrack? 😛

Regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

Out of interest stubsound, what are you reference monitors?

Everyone always talks about things sounding good or not, but no-one ever makes mention of what their respective listening setups are.

No personal dig, just curious, because frankly compared to ALOT of plugins and hardware we’ve we’ve had the pleasure to use, waves is really only a bundle I’ve found to be useful for their metering plugins. Don’t even get me started in the slate VCC

Kind regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

Multi out setups  tend to be more flexible, as although the inbuilt plugs have their uses, for anything truly unique, you need to go out of the box so to speak.

You tend to find people do a combination of both for most setups, eg basic mix inside superior (bleeds etc) then bus out to say between 6 and 12 channels to the host and then the engineer gets to use all his fancy plugs, fabfilter etc to get the sound he’s looking for with the plugins he know best/favours the most, as you can’t do mid/side eq’ing internally kinda like pre-mastering the drum mix before it hits the rest of the project.

If toontrack could at least give better metering/plugin gridations etc so you can *see* the physical adjustments and the inpact they have that would be useful, meters showing just random activity are not helpful IMO.

Mixing bounced wav’s is normally tougher because any idea’s you have for mixing will rely soley on the source, hence why SD is so flexible, you want a different snare etc, then just swap it out on the fly, it’s a nice fluid way of being able to suss out the potential source issues in your mix rather than trying to overcome samples that tonally won’t suit.

Hope that helps in someway. If I can go out on a limb, the chances are the presets are working well for you, to buss out-board you really want to have a handle on the limits of your own toolset and know the foibles of your reference environment etc.

Kind regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

ORIGINAL: Dingo

I wasn’t holding back any information I simply listed a few basic tips. The point of this thread is for people to add to the list….

You know what, my main gripe was that you initiated a thread intended to educate, great, I’m all for it, but it just confuses me, as the suggestions you put up (pitch shifters, doubling an octave down etc), to most would be the last ports of call, due to the fact they are often cheap work-arounds for a scale-able mix.

ORIGINAL: Dingo

I honestly can’t see what you’re banging on about? I simply listed a few very basic tips in which you could use to thicken it up or to make a single guitar sound bigger. I didnt list them as a 1, 2, 3 process. The point of this thread is for people to add content. I’m not “educating people into potential pitfalls” That’s insulting more than anything, you’re just trying to nit pick at things because you fail to understand me, you think everything I listed IS the definitive process of how you should get the heavy tone, it’s just a list of different techniques & tricks.

If you can’t see what Im “banging on about” Sir, you need to re-read and re-answer, I wasn’t saying you were *steering* people into trouble, rather you weren’t making people aware that some of those techniques have inherent foibles. I never said you implied this was the “only” process.

As for just nit-picking because I don’t understand you is pure nonsense, especially seeing as I’ve contributed to the thread.

ORIGINAL: Dingo
Why don’t you do a post on phase issues, instead of “holding back information”. I bet there’ll be people reading not even knowing what phase issues are or how they become apparent or how you fix them. You seem knowledgeable enough, why not share it.

Because this thread isn’t about phasing, and that topic can easily go past degree-level understanding. Besides, if you know what issues the effect is possibly causing, you can always look to at least begin to understand it’s not just about peaks of wave forms. Again you raised the technique, I just asked why?

ORIGINAL: Dingo
Again, you’re trying to argue about nothing. As I mentioned previously Chorus does help a part stand out in the mix is you use it subtley. Whether or not you want to use it is up to you, it’s just an option!

and again, I was just saying for the effect you are trying to produce there are probably better/cleaner ways of doing it esp if other tracks have chorus in the mix.

ORIGINAL: Dingo
Why not write a massive post about technical EQ, frequency ranges and instrument ranges, EQ types etc… ? You seem quick enough to keep arguing with me over nothing instead contributing to the thread and being informative!

http://www.recordingeq.com/Subscribe/tip/tascam.htm
Someone already did a nice little job of it for reference, but I guess you already have that link 🙂

ORIGINAL: Dingo
We are on the same page but you’ve miss interpreted what I wrote. It does help to polish a turd if the tones good though 😛

Yeah there’s nothing better than hearing a pristine sounding bag of shite 🙂

Regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

There are about a million ways of doing this, but surely this is so simple, why can’t you just plug your guitar into your guitar amp and let the drums come out of the computer/reference/whatever speakers?

Regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

Okay,

1) You’re right, there are no rules in music, but there is a “good practice”/sets of techniques that normally work together. If you’re looking to help people you don’t hold back the information.

2) Everything you do from the early source tone to the playing, the compressing EQ’ing etc etc is ALL going to add to the final mixdown, so yeah it might seem trivial at the early stages, but again why not educate people as to the potential pitfalls of what they themselves are introducing/adding to the mix. The further you progress with your music the more daunting the changes to be made can become.

3) If you want to get something to “cut” through a mix, then why use chorus to push it? It’s forcing the issue, rather than carving a neat little place for it in the mix, techniques such as subtractive eq’ing normally help.

Personally if you’re struggling to hear differences in players, and you feel that really doesn’t ad up to much in the overall sound, then great, I imagine ignorance is bliss, the performance comes first and then the tone, hence why re-amping solution removes the onus to be on the correct cab/pre/eq etc combination and shifts the requirement back to the musician to perform. You can foul up a great piece of music with the wrong tone, of course you can, but you sure as hell will have to work harder to polish a turd…

Regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

“I think people get too caught up in the technical side of things especially with phase problems. If it sounds good use it, it’s not like the listener is going to be criticizing the mix for phase issues…”

Agreed to a certain extent (it’s not like the listener is going to know if it’s sounds like crap?), maybe I misunderstood, but surely to aid someone would be to yes, advise them of all techniques and ways of interpreting them, but also to help them understand that down the line as they progress and want to take their music further that these kinds of effects will inherently change the sound, such that it may make it difficult to mix etc. If I’m brutally honest, that kind of mentality does nothing but frustrate those who genuinely want to help others, those who choose not to read, have no advantage over those who can’t…..

Also, guitar tone is not as “GOOD” as the amp/cab to start with, it’s about the performance, re-amping is a very simple solution if you ever want to change the mix in the future, so tone almost becomes moot

Just for the sake of clarity, quad-tracking does mean to use 4 channels at once e.g. 2x guitar left 2x right.

Chorus used for lead guitar?, where stereo panning and volume automation are simple and introduce no new artifacts into the mix seems cleaner, but if I didn’t know that, would I be missing out? That’s effectively the argument you posed.

Anyway, a solid performance, a considered approach to the left right balance when recording left/right, a good understanding of what basic eq ranges will help you shape your tone, and good source of reference material, hopefully access to lots of different (not necessarily expensive) speaker setups, and of course a good preamp ideally make for a good tone. You can also aid the process by going down the re-amping route and whilst setting up the dry signal you can really enhance the tone that will be going to your amp, cleaning up the signal so you’re not amplifying any buzz etc….

Regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

Honestly…. I wouldn’t use either, unless you’re using their metering systems (dorrough etc which are excellent) they are not great sounding plugins at all IMO, what they lack for in transparency (across therir products) they make up for with a shudderingly amazing way of sucking the life out of a mix… classic e.g. would be the L2++ maximiser. Waves users, really need to check out crysonic, fabfilter, soundtoys, image line, nomad factory, PSP & Voxengo etc etc ad etc etc …. don’t believe the hype 🙂

Kind regards

David

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

Those all sound like last resorts to decently recorded takes in the first place.

Couple of questions..

1) What are you doing in the mix process when it comes to the bass/guitars octave down situation? How are they not conflicting as they’re in the same register if I understand your post correctly.

2) Why introduce chorus for a stereo effect, true it’s a no linear way of offsetting the audio but it does introduce inherent phase issues..

No offence meant here, but I would imagine the “proper” way to get a good guitar tone is.

1) perfecting left/right takes, understand what you’re doing, palm accents, harmonics, pick attack etc will inherently make things feel really tight and punchy.

2) Instead of adding a chorus effect, look up the “Haas” effect, basically create your stereo pair, then bus to a group track set with a pre-delay, you can then mix and eq the delayed sound to taste.

3) Work in the stereo field, slightly varying the EQ from left to right of each other tend to make the channels more pronounced, other techniques such as EQ’ing the bass out of the side freq’s can leave more room for lower/mid freq’s for the guitars.

4) Work with sidechaining the guitars, make them pump ever-so-slightly off the kick just give them more perceived flex and weight.

5) If you’re going to use stereo cab placement (which becomes great fun EQ’ing in the stereo fields and in the tone mind set much more fun as it has to all be done at once) try and take two cabs (again EQ’d very slightly different) and introduce like this..

-> left guitar -> cab 1 (panned hard left) & cab 2 (panned say 20-40% right)
-> right guitar -> cab 2 (panned hard right) & cab 2 (panned as above)

of course you can mix match, eq differently, pan to suit etc, but it offers more balance i feel.

6) Also quadtracking might be worth looking into, it can get really messy if not played tightly though.

7) pitch pedals and octave pedals are pretty much the same, work the bass more if you’re looking for a better locked in low end vibe, also depending on their processing the octav’d signal can often sound pretty pap.

8) Distortion is a natural compressor however cab impulses like to “wamp” a bit sometimes, normally freq’s around 400hz tend to be the offenders, a slight dip there tends to lend a bit of clarity whilst retaining depth.

Just my pocket full of change.

Regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

I would’ve thought regardless of the source medium you’d need to consider phase alignment when mixing as you’re adding inherent latencies and phasing by EQ’s hence why the likes of fabfilter have a full linear phase operation mode.

Maybe there are issues with the library, but even so it only ads an extra task in line with what you should be doing in the first place.

Kind regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[VOLiTiAN]

Hi Monsterhulk,

I genuinely don’t want to sound snidey towards scott or toontrack that’s not my aim, but I do appreciate you chipping in, I was beginning to think I was going a tad crazier than normal hehe.

The OP has spoken?

Kind regards

D.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

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