thedrumdoctor
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Topics Started: 2
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Has Thanked: 30
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thedrumdoctorIf they can just improve the cymbals and Hi Hats. That’s the only thing that keeps it from sounding completely real to me. I know it’s a difficult task but that’s the last frontier in Virtual drums to tackle.
Reply To: SD4 Coming this year? version: 3.4.0
Operating system: macOS Sonoma (14)
Seconded!
I use the eDRUMin interface with an optical hi-hat controller and the CC information going to SD3 is the full 0-127 in its purest form. No interference by a third party module deciding how they think the CC information should be interpreted on its way to the VST. The transitions between open/closed really show their limitations when the eDRUMin is passing over the information. It’s almost like there are ‘gaps’ from the SD3 side of things. Sure, I’ve fiddled about with the articulation slider to get the most realism, messed with the ‘smoothness’ control and increased the capacity of the voices, but it’s still lacking something. I mean it’s good – very good – and better than anything I’ve heard from a modern module, but there’s still room for improvement.
In fact, I had to use one of those Roland VAD kits with a TD27 and a VH10 a couple of weeks ago using Roland’s own internal sounds and it was quite awful, compared to my own A2E conversion. It seems as you say, cymbals are the final frontier.
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorThe beauty of even the stock kits in SD3, is the ability to process the sounds. You can have maximum resonance or choke the drums so they sound like a 1970 close-miked ‘dead’ sounding kit. Experiment with the pitch and tuning settings on different drums. I have a kit from the basic sound library made up of different kit components. I managed to retune a Gretsch floor tom to sit in pitch and resonance with a 13in Premier rack tom. In fact, I tuned the Premier tom to sound like a typical 12 x 8 tom. It’s all there, you just need to devote the time into studying the manual and experimenting.
Beware of simply lunging at buying another SDX in the hope it will deliver instant results. You are better studying and learning the stock SDX before looking for other SDX packs – unless of course you need a particular sample of a cymbal, percussion item or drum. I was surprised at the results I could get by just experimenting with the standard SDX.
thedrumdoctor
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Thanked by: Eilert Ottem OttemthedrumdoctorYou can get that Power Station sound from the various room mics in SD3 and altering the levels of the components. I did it for a room mic channel and actually named it, ‘Power Station’ for that very reason! An instant Tony Thompson sound is in there for sure.
I still have the vinyl of the 12″ remix of Some Like it Hot lying around somewhere. That particular piece of vinyl was instrumental in alerting me to the limitations of squeezing 5 tracks onto a single side of 12″ plastic. The same track on the Power Station album sounded so compressed in comparison to the 12″ single. It was amazing to hear the difference on the CD release when I could really hear the chemistry between John Taylor and Tony Thompson on all the tracks.
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorI use a Drone optical hi-hat controller which transmits clean CC info from 0-127. I made my own 2-piece hi-hat with the top cymbal being a Gewa 14 which triggers incredibly well set under the LV hi-hat setting.
I loathe those plunger type hi-hat controllers – though I suspect they would work really well straight into an eDRUMin controller. The Roland modules limit the hi-hat CC info passed through to a VST. I used to watch this on a MIDI monitor when I had a VH-11 through a TD-20. So unreliable at the top and bottom end ranges of the notes. When I got the optical controller through the eDRUMin it actually showed how VST hi-hat articulations are still really in their infancy. But VST developers aren’t going to expand hi-hat articulations until the major e-drum brands start building that functionality into their propriety hi-hat controllers.
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorI forgot to add that 2 of my kit components are from the SD2 core Avatar kit. I use a 14 x 14 floor tom and a Sabian crash – but my snare, bass drum, rack tom, hi-hats, 2 other crashes, ride and tambourine are all SD3 core. I also put the cross-stick onto a Roland BT-1. I’ve always hated the unreliability of cross-stick triggering.
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorI have an incredible sounding kit from the SD3 core sounds. My aim is to try and reproduce a sound exactly like sitting at a real drum set. This means carefully mixing the overhead mic sound and using minimal room mic sound. Room mics are fantastic in a finished song, but in reality, drummers do not sit on top of a room mic sound!!!! Also, we don’t hear our instruments in stereo so I always make sure my Focusrite interface sends me a mono mix.
Toontrack obviously want to sell us their SDX add-ons, but the core software itself has many tweaks with which we can dial in realism to the software.
I must also declare that I use the eDRUMin MIDI controller to trigger SD3, which is far more advanced with MIDI note control than any drum module. I used to have a Roland module but Roland write their software to work primarily with Roland internal sound libraries. I would advise anyone wanting to get the maximum functionality from a drum VST to unplug their modules and invest in one or two eDRUMin units. There is a learning curve, but you will soon realise how limited even the most expensive drum modules are for triggering VST sounds!
One final thing, the eDRUMin controller sends the purest CC information to SD3 I have ever seen. Again, Roland make their modules to work with their internal sounds and this is very, very clear when it comes to CC info and their hi-hat controllers. For a realistic hi-hat experience with SD3 I recommend the eDRUMin controller. When you realise the power the eDRUMin controller gives the drummer over the MIDI information sending to a VST, you realise that you really don’t need a huge library of SDX sounds to achieve an almost perfect acoustic drum set response.
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorI get this from time to time with SD3 running in its own host on a Mac mini with 2 x eDrumin interfaces using a 1st gen Focusrite Scarlet to handle the sound output.
My latency problem doesn’t produce delay, it creates horrible distortion in the cans.
It happens all of a sudden and the only cure is to reboot the computer. Even when I try to change the buffer sizes or change the sample rate in the Focusrite from 44.1khz to 48khz and then back again it doesn’t help. Nor does restarting SD3 or unplugging/replugging the Focusrite. Only a reboot resets things.
I think it’s my Focusrite because it’s not really supported any more, but it reports as working on the Focusrite support website. OS updates seem to make a difference to Focusrite interfaces so maybe it’s time for a new interface for me.
Incidentally, when I run SD3 from within a DAW I don’t get the latency occurring like in the stand-alone, but the Focusrite software will crash and give no sound – even though the eDrumin software and SD3 show they are working.
Maybe it’s something to do with the eDrumin latency being apparently, ridiculously low. I don’t know, I’m just guessing really. It’s different to using a conventional drum module to trigger a VST and is way advanced in terms of the MIDI info it can send compared to a standard drum module.
Glad to see you got yours sorted!
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorWhat bit-size samples are you loading – 24 or 16? I found going to 16-bit loaded a lot quicker and used less RAM and I didn’t notice the sound difference.
I’ve got an eDrumin 10 + 4 linked together (no hub) and one USB goes into a Mac Mini with 2 internal SSDs – 1 for the OS and the other for storage.
I agree with the other reply about your drive size. SD3 stock samples chew up most of a 500Gb drive so you really want to add at least a 1Tb drive dedicated to hosting your music data. Use the main drive for OS and applications and get the SD3 samples onto an additional drive.
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorI know this is a dumb question for me to ask, but your module definitely has the capability of taking 2 CC pedal inputs? I know the Roland TD-50 has a traditional pair of Jack-inputs for the HH controller setup and can also take another CC HH on MIDI input.
SD3 certainly looks to be able to receive more than 1 HH controller as well. I’m wondering if it’s a module thing in your case because every module’s proprietary software seem to exist in a walled garden when it comes to how CC information is generated to correspond with their internal sounds. The problems occur when sending CC MIDI out. Sure, the option is there, but they don’t want their customers using VSTs. Roland are really weird with how their HH CC information goes out to VSTs. I’ve seen it on screen with a MIDI note monitor and it can be unreliable and messy. They don’t make it easy to go outside of their ecosystem. Especially with those archaic VH ‘plunger’ HH controllers. They make their software and hardware to work within their world, in tune with the way they developed their products.
Whatever module you have, it may be worth investing in a 4-port eDRUMin controller to add to your setup specifically for the extra HH controller. They are quite incredible and go way beyond the confines of a manufacturer’s module. If you want to seriously get the most out of any VST then ditch the manufacturer’s module for eDRUMin controllers. Honestly, I ditched my Roland module once I discovered eDRUMin. In fact, I wouldn’t use a module from any manufacturer designed primarily as an internal sound source these days. They literally couldn’t pay me to. I’ve got 2 eDRUMin controllers and in terms of how they can manipulate MIDI information, SD3 is lagging behind. SD3 gives a max of 6 open/closed HH articulations but they could add another 4 and eDRUMin software would eat them up into the 0-127 scale of CC information!
You may very well be the only e-drummer trying to go through the Gary Chester book though! It was very much a book that peaked in its popularity on the back of Dave Weckl’s Back to Basics video in 1987. He really revived that book for the braver guys – not me though!
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorI wouldn’t mind seeing an option to make mic signals mono like in the real world where it’s only condensers which are recorded as stereo. Every producer wants drum stems in mono so I have to convert them in a DAW before sending. It would be nice to record in mono at source – or maybe I’ve missed a setting in the interface!!!!
Hi,
if you wish to have your SD3 Song Track Bounced per microphone, like if it was a real recording, you choose ‘Bounce Microphone Channels’ on the Advanced tab.
This gives you pre-mixer audio files per Microphone, plus you got a few extra options there.BR,
John
Well I didn’t know that!
Thanks for the info. I will delve into the Advanced area…
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorTotally what Andrew Payne wrote! Hi-Hat transitions are still work-in-progress as far as many drummers are concerned. I’ve got eDRUMin controllers with an optical sensor for the Hi-Hat CC notes and it sends 1-127 to SD which I don’t believe SD knows what to do with seeing as there are only (I think) 6 articulations for open/closed transitions. Probably enough for passing through from a mechanical Roland plunger controller and a Roland module with whatever MIDI info it generates. But things are moving on with optical sensors and Hall sensors which will send MIDI info more like a keyboard player’s expression pedal rather than a clunky old plunger system from the 90s.
I wouldn’t mind seeing an option to make mic signals mono like in the real world where it’s only condensers which are recorded as stereo. Every producer wants drum stems in mono so I have to convert them in a DAW before sending. It would be nice to record in mono at source – or maybe I’ve missed a setting in the interface!!!!
thedrumdoctor
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Thanked by: log0utthedrumdoctorNothing for the e-kit drummer playing at home, but probably features more relevant to the non-drummer who needs a great tool for constructing natural sounding drum tracks for their songs.
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorI’d look out for someone selling a 3.0 licence. That’s what I ended up doing.
I still love Addictive Drums 2, but they are long overdue an upgrade. SD3’s hi-hat engine is slightly better and they have bell samples for crashes. Sample wise, I have no issues between the two – as a recording drummer. SD3’s samples may well be 48khz but I can’t hear the difference. I’ve invested in extra kit packs for AD2 as well, because they are working on the next release.
I’m guessing SD4 when it comes, will have some sort of AI technology included, but whether that will be more useful for programmers/producers or real drummers will be the grounds for whether or not I choose to upgrade. SD3 is packed with stuff I’ll never use recording stems to give to other people to work with. Roll on AD3!!!
thedrumdoctor
thedrumdoctorWhat’s “SS” by the way (the well known nazi thing aside of course:-))?
Steven Slate drums (I don’t have it myself though).
thedrumdoctor
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