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[Shen G]

Cool!  I hope you like half as much as I do!

I’d be keen to hear what you (and others) think of it.

I can’t decide which is my favourite kit, other than struggling to find a use for concert tom kits in general and ye olde kooky kits.  But don’t sleep on the Avalon kit in the wood booth.  I don’t usually go for such small kits but I have been on a bit of Nate Smith/Fearless Flyers kick lately, trying to expand my drumming horizons and this isn’t a bad start (need to bring in another snare).  But the ride is a real stand out for me.  So crashable but still with nice stick definition on the bow *chef kiss*

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

Perhaps philosophical wasn’t the right word, but just differing points of view/ideologies.

I really don’t think you could convince me a drum track was real drums with a hodgepodge selection from vastly different rooms/mics etc unless it was run through so much production that it could have been any sound to begin with.  I guess I’m just thinking a more stripped down, natural, “real” sound can always be produced in to something like you want, but it can’t be taken away.

I’m not sure what you mean exactly by “energy”.  I’d like to think I make the energy with what and how I play.   Soloed instruments sounding unnatural?  I’ve heard enough to know things sound different to the ear in the room and to a close mic to a far mic of various types etc if thats what you mean.  I’m not trying to blow a hole in anything.  Don’t take it so personally.  Or recording each track as a song going in?  Recording as a band or each instrument?  I can’t imagine what your point is.  I think we are coming at the idea of music making from vary different angles.

Anyway, sorry Mark for taking this thread of topic.  Jord’s just such an annoying mix of helpful and knowledgeable but also kinda of narrow minded and dismissive.

Peace.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

hehe, perhaps this is getting to philosophical but I’d like to consider the raw samples a capturing of reality.  As in, good luck trying recreate everyting in a real recording artificially.  If you can pluck a tone out of white noise, add some harmonics, a transients and a tail and make a drum sound you like, all the power to you!

I know you appreciate the realness of SD3 though 😉  also that there is a lot of augmentation/layering/artificial samples etc in modern productions.  Just the you can’t undo that.  So for a very natural sound it has to be there.

Cheers.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

• This post was modified 2 weeks, 3 days ago by Shen G.

[Shen G]

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

you can borrow room ambiences from a single room and bring all pieces of the library together giving a good cohesive mix.

Certainly is a great tip and helps, but I’m not sure I’m convinced in how real/authentic it sounds.  Perhaps once in a full mix?   But I’ve haven’t gotten that far tbh, and I’m sure you’re better at that side of things than I am.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

I’m glad to see I’m not totally alone in this.  I’m still thinking it wont really be feasible though.  It seems it would end up being about as much work as the current SDX’s, but a lot harder to market/sell a 1 kit SDX at the same price.  As much as I want it.

I’m surprised you don’t appreciate the improvements in “sound quality” post core library more, Jord.  I don’t really have the words to describe it, but the effect of closing ones eyes and believing you a behind a real kit in a real room doesn’t really happen for me until Death and Darkness.

Makes me wonder if there IS room for a third drum product.  EZX’s for song writers.  And may be some kind of split of SDX’s for drummers and for composer/mixer types.

 

Cheers.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

+1 for FoR 😉

I concur with everything said so far.  The versatility of FoR puts it near the top for me.  From the Dry room to the Live room, with the Stone room in between, it covers all the size/ambience of rooms I would like.  Despite the differences I find mixing and matching pieces from the rooms sounds good/cohesive.  Plus I can find a use for all of the kits, unlike some other SDX’s.  And with the percussion that is included and one of my favourite selections of cymbals make this a must have IMO.  I’m probably only ranking Drum Factory higher at the moment because it’s my newest baby 😀

Stockholm I find a bit boring with not much variety in drum or cymbals sounds.

Cheers.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

1

Thanked by: Mark King

[Shen G]

A little tip from an amatuer here.  Hit the cymbals that do work when in the mixer window to see what mic channels they are showing up in and check the Bleed from Instruments property box for the newly added cymbal and add where needed.  OH Cond, Front Height and Rear Height in this case.

Cheers.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

Thanks for the contributions all.

I know taking the concept to the extreme would be totally  impractical.  Not every kit could have all stick/mallets/rods/brushes.  All possible muffling, heads types etc, but chosen appropriately with the choice of drums recorded.  ps.  a set recorded with muffling rings would be grand 😉

It was you Wolfgang saying if required for your band to change your sound up for a song, you’d sooner change tools than whole kits that struck a chord with me…. or a rhythm if you will…  As much as I love playing along to covers and getting as close to the original sound as possible, it’s what fuels my SDX addiction, but with playing with friends let alone originals a sounds that fits in with them is more important.

Wolfgang wrote:

Examples being the Songwriter Kit from Stories

Ahh man, not the biggest fan of Stories but absolutely love that kit and agree.

drumjack52 wrote:

Yeah you could pull cymbals from the different SDX’s one owns but they’d all sound different because of where and how they were sampled. Would be nice to have a uniform sound.

Yeah, it could be lack of ability on my behalf but I’m never happy with the sound from mixing and matching SDX’s.  I also want to drum first and foremost (this mixing business is fascinating but harder than I thought).  That idea of gear based pack’s may be getting as close to what I’m thinking.  But they would all have to be recorded in the same space with same gear etc.  Something for SD4’s core perhaps?

drumjack52 wrote:

does anyone know how many levels are used in a typical SDX?

I have no idea but I guesstimate by install size divided by number of drums/mics kind of thing that they gone up somewhat over time.  As much as I praise RtR for being flawless snare sampling low to high velocity wise, since D&D it has been pretty much perfect.  It’s more of a “I can’t point to any faults previously, but RtR just sounds real”.  Only Rock Foundry has a really obvious transition at like 95-96 velocity iirc.  I think it’s the range they’ve really nailed with it.  Some packs lightest notes seem way too loud/hard.  Area 33 makes some sense, but even Stockholm iirc (not at drums).  And Core for me not being hit hard enough.  I’m sure it must have been but I don’t feel the energy.

pumpkinking wrote:

when an SDX is recorded with a “corridor”, “stairwell” or other remotely-located mic, I like bringing a little bit in – it is a colorful room sound that sounds better and is easier to use than complex reverb effects

That has to be my favourite mixing trick/thing to do.  A touch of devil-loc is my choice.  I would always want a far mic like that include in any SDX.

pumpkinking wrote:

any SDX that was aimed at showcasing the e-drum dynamics of a single kit would have to make concessions that would be good for some but not for others, IMO.

yeah, I’m kind of coming around to it being infeasible.  I know I’d buy some, but may not be worth it for TT.  But I also would have thought that with how SD3/SDX’s are made, but here we are!

Cheers.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

Sorry about that.  I made another thread now.
I don’t mind if mods clean this one up.  Or should I just deleted my text or does this forum have spoiler tags so I could at least hide it?  I already screwed up having 2 threads regarding the “review”.

Great, now I’m going off topic again… I’ll see my self out…

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

OK, if you’re missing the joke from the greatest bestest comedy ever made then I’m sorry for you 😛

Yeah, I have no idea how many people either use the software like I do or are interested in this idea of an SDX, that’s why I’m putting it out there.  I am at least not the only one.  I curious as you how you think you know nearly everyone uses it the way you do.  Perhaps this is an e-drummer vs programmer thing?

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

It’s about the music… not the drums itself.

That sounds pretty fluffy.  Aren’t drums part of the music?  Or do mean the thing like how when drums recorded/mixed for a demo to show them off they sound good on their own, but would be hard to fit in a song mix?

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

You can do the above with the core library alone if you wanted.

For one I can’t even select a kit that is up to my standards/taste.  Something about them sounds weakly hit and there is too much room sound for my liking.  The sampling isn’t good as far as soft to hard hits,  hi-hat openness levels etc.  And no, I can’t write a song using the Tama Bell Brass and be a Danny Carey and throw the wires on for the last half can I?
While for sure I’m not taking advantage of all the sound sculpting features in SD3 by a long shot, it’s the baked in qualities of the recorded samples that are my highest priority.  I am really looking forward to seeing/hearing SD4’s core library.

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

if you are referring to physical modeling

Certainly not.  I basically mean e-drums and Superior Drummer.

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

I’ll take the real drums in a real environment recorded by a real person any day. I find it rather humorous that you are looking for realism in the most unrealistic ways.

Absolutely.  I don’t even like using the tuning feature in SD3 if can avoid it, as good as the algorithm is.  I aim to treat the setup as much as a real kit recording as much as possible.

I struggle with your desire for authentic realism on one hand and your just make anything work with enough manipulation on the other.

I’m certainly not saying to stop doing producer packs.  It’s just that a few times now, as a drummer I’ve wished they had recorded this or that snare with wires off/rods.  That these drums had clear or coated heads instead.  That some had more/less/different muffling on snare/toms etc.  I know about envelope controls, but again, as much captured for real is ideal.

I can see how all the possible permutations could really get out of control.  Things like the muffling options would be too much, and the envelope controls are a natural enough change to use.  And not saying TT would make millions if they did it, but it was just a suggestion, curious to see what others thought about it.  While it’s rather OT now, here we are.

A Modern Session Drummer SDX.  As close to a “no compromise” for E-drummers who either want to replace or are unable to access the quality of gear/talent used in these recordings without sacrificing the features of real kits.

Pie in the sky perhaps.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

I’m glad I’m not alone in wanting that kind of virtual drum kit style SDX Wolfgang!

Bear-Faced Cow wrote:

That is more producer dependent and has very little bearing on ToonTrack.

I guess that’s what we’re saying.  Instead of a producer focused SDX, a more “what if you had this drum kit” kind of thing.  It’s possible there may be dozens of us.  DOZENS!  That want this.

I do think the tech has come a long way all around.  Such that is it a viable alternative for a lot people when unable access such drums, mics, rooms, engineers etc.  Not to mention the creative opportunities that are possible with e-drums and great samples.

I can imagine issues with some people not like the limitations… “why is it that drum brand not this one.  no buy”.  We have so much genre/era covered already with the producer style series, have to find some differentiator.

Cheers

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

When I first read your post I struggled to think what you could have done for your description to be accurate.  Then loading it up I see what you mean.
The tom samples do sound quite like the same sample.  Just affected with some transient reduction or something for the quieter ones.  And yep, no bow and bell articulations for cymbals.

No wonder I haven’t ever used this SDX and is on my list of regretted purchases.  I honestly think TT do themselves a disservice to the newer stuff by charging the same amount for all their SDX’s.  Sure they are discounted more then the newer ones.  But anyone buying in for the first time, thinking they’ll grab a bundle for value and selecting something from the oldest ones that suits thier taste/style.  Only to be disappointed and not understand what all the fuss is about regarding Superior Drummer.  I know they have good demo’s to listen and judge, but pre-mixed and well made midi can do a lot to sell it.

I think all pre SD3 SDX’s should be at a different price.  I feel like I say it every 3rd post or so but the improvements every subsequent SDX have been rather substantial, especially for an e-drummer.  It seems like a public service announcement now to say, “If it’s the most realistic drum sounds you want, sort by latest release until you find something you like”

*This message has been brought to you by your local SDX hoarder”

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

Yeah, spot on.  It doesn’t have any of those alternate tools or snare wires off.  I probably should have mentioned that but I guess I forgot because I rarely use them, in part because of my narrow play style, but also find the drums they choose to use for the rods (probably the only type I’d use), brushes, mallets etc are on the drums I don’t want to use.

Although I have considered asking for/putting the idea out there for an SDX that is going for the most “virtual drum kit” possible.  Instead of spending so much time and effort in to the multiple rooms and kits, just sample a high quality 7+ piece kit thats as universal as possible.  With a modest bunch of snare options that cover as wide a range of sound as possible, a few different sized kicks with some muffling options and enough cymbals to suit different stuff.  And sample it with all the possible tools and have the options to “throw” the wires off on any snare.  Also have the buzz from each snare be appropriate to the snare that’s is in use.  afaik only 1 snare’s buzz is usually sampled?  Perhaps each kit has it’s own default snare sampled now judging by Real to Reel…  I know sometimes a tight piccolo snare will have the loose buzz of a fatty.

But have it be the most customizable, do anything you want with it that you could do if you had it for real.

Not sure which SDX’s you already have, but Legacy of Rock and Decades seem to have the most options for tools.  Along with Stories Iso A room and State of the Art and Jazz Sessions also have a few choices.  I may have missed something.

Cheers.

edit:  also regarding RtR, I turned positional sensing back on on the snare and think they’ve dialed in the off center and edge samples better than last I’ve tried.  Tbh I can’t remember when I tried it last, quite a while/perhaps many SDX’s, but always the found 3 different areas to sound too far from each other, and not really manageable on my Roland PD-128S and Edrumin setup.  Perhaps on 3 different pads.  But playing around on the snare sounded too strange, needing some kind of blending tech to sound natural (SD4 anyone?).  While there is still a bit of that in this SDX, it sounds close enough that I might actually use it, albeit set as close to the edge as I can to avoid accidental triggering.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

• The post has been modified 2 times, last modified 1 month, 4 weeks ago by Shen G.

[Shen G]

While not helping regarding funk presets particularly.  I got to give a plug to https://www.youtube.com/@RecreationMixChallenge

Some of them are kind of “pop” though, whatever that means exactly.  And while like Develop Device, they are mainly focused on heavier metal styles and are very processed, they are laid out well in the mixer so it’s easy to adjust the amount of parallel compression/reverb etc.

They very affordable too.

A handy list is available here:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1za8q-Dkyy1ZPseF37E8KH1AQHdJucehgCR9029fbNpg/edit?gid=0#gid=0

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

[Shen G]

David Kennedy wrote:

What bundles if any did SD3 come with? If i buy Foundries, I wont be doubling up will I?

While you can buy as a bundle, it’s optional and you should be able to see if you have any other SDX’s to choose from in SD3.

If your recording via playing e-drums, I highly recommend the SDX’s newer than but including Death and Darkness, as I find them much more natural to play on a kit.  If programming it’s perhaps not such a big deal.

SD3 with Real to Reel, Fields of Rock, Drum Factory, Death and Darkness, Legacy of Rock, Hitmaker, Stories, State of the Art, Decades, Stockholm, Jazz Sessions, Hansa, Rock Foundry, Area 33 (in order of preference). Plus a few older SDX's and EZX's.
Into: Reaper with Ryzen 5700x, 32GB RAM and assorted SSD's.
Through: Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 Gen2 USB Audio Interface
From: eDRUMin 10 + eDRUMin 8 with assorted Roland and Yamaha pads.

1

Thanked by: David Kennedy

[Author]

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