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[Romanp]

I tried a snare treatment method of taping the snare wires a bit on my Ludwig supraphonic. Dang that tightened things up. Getting closer to the late 70s roots rub a dub snare.

[Romanp]

Maybe Custom and Vintage 2 Tea Towels and Gaffer tape, Oh yeah!

[Romanp]

Toontrack create a very powerful drum sound module.
We don’t need or want them to develope anything else. No plug ins, no sequencers.
All that stuff is available in your DAW or third party plug ins.
The fact they include sonalksis plug ins useful for drum ixing is a bonus.
You could just buy these seperately if they weren’t.
But it does add an essential drum mixing capability. But anything further like saturation etc. No we don’t need those included.
I intend to use UAD EMT140 plate reverb plug in with drums.
It is highly praised and has to be a classic sound.

Luckily our Swedish brothers are too smart to get sidetracked by internet chatter.
Roman.

[Romanp]

ORIGINAL: Rogjul

If you can use third party plug ins what is the point of asking Toontrack to supply saturation and reverb?

I am not trying to have an argument at all here really , but EZMIX is not a third party . It’s made by Toontrack and the link I supplied with my post shows a feature request for them to upgrade superior drummer to include EXMIX into the mixer where we already have thier eq, compression etc.

and the other “point” would be the ability to add as much or as little as one would want to of thier own personal taste.

I was responding to the OP fizbin requesting saturation and reverb in SD. I thought that was obvious.
I’m not really interested in EZmix.
I want to do my own mixing.
Your other “point” doesn’t make sense to me. How does Toontrack including saturation and reverb differ to using third party plug ins?
If we request every plug in that is already available in our DAWs then we open up the issues of which saturation plug in. Which reverb plug in. These are very important distinctions. People spend 1000s for quality plug ins because they sound better than cheap plug ins.

I want detailed, well recorded drum kits with heaps of mics. That seems to be exactly what Toontrack supply.
Asking for every little feature that we can already use in our DAWs seems superfluous to me.
It could potentially distract TT from the important stuff like recording more good drum kits. It could water down the product.

And why would we want a drum machine sequencer when that is available in your DAW as well.
Roman.

[Romanp]

I still haven’t loaded my Toontrack software yet. Doing a studio rearrange. But in two weeks I should be rolling.
I’m sure there is huge scope with the raw toontrack libraries and mixing techniques to get a huge variety of drum sounds. Emulations of records possibly.

Still it is tempting to request SDX developed by famous producers of particular genres.
For Soul/Vintage RnB we could get Gabriel Roth
For Vintage reggae go to Jamaica and hire King Jammy, Sly Dunbar etc.
Vintage drummers with vintage kits oooh yeah!
But it would be rediculous to complain when I haven’t even loaded the software yet, ha ha.

I’m planning on getting a Royer R121 mic for hihat recording and anything else.
I do plan on trying an acoustic hihat with the Toontrack software together. Audio and MIDI.

I’ve got a pair of Zildjian A Custom 14s. And I want to get a few other flavours of hihat as well.

OCD regardings drums, ha ha.
Roman.

[Romanp]

If you can use third party plug ins what is the point of asking Toontrack to supply saturation and reverb?

[Romanp]

Hallelujah!

[Romanp]

I gave to confess that thise breaks like ‘impeach’ and ‘synthetic’ are just pure engmas to me.
Why have we not had such uniquely characterful drums since the late 60s early 70s?
Why do most modern drums all sound like a million dollar studio rock kit.
Listen to ‘impeach’. How would that snare have sounded as a direct acoustic sound.
I am certain there is a huge amount of distortion on that snare. It is one of the most sampled sounds ever. So punchy.
It would seem too limiting to produce a drum product with that much distortion if it could be personally decided.
But noone gets sounds like that nowadays.
I just marvel at ‘synthetic’ I’ve never heard another drum sound like it. So punchy. What would that drum kit have sounded like in the room. Apparently it is Bernard Purdie on that track.
What drum kit did Zigaboo play. Loudest snare ever on ‘cardova’.
Fascinating.

[Romanp]

hello Chris Whitten and Juicy.
Yup I got SD2, C&V, YMF, FM, LP, Rsticks and Claustro.
I have a bit of studio tidying to do before I can try them out.
I humbly accept that I am speaking from complete ignorance as far as actually using the product.

I have a simple mentality that when I hear different styles of drums that I need those as a new drum kit. New samples etc.
Just like every breakbeat sounds different. And we love them all.
But hearing Abbey roads demos that switch mic positions as the drummer plays taught me alot.
It taught me that different drum sounds can be hugely dependant on the mic position and resuulting sound.

This is new technology having velocity layers, round robins and multiple mics.
Add in eq, layering, amplitude envelope etc etc and there may be huge scope for tailoring drum sounds.

Then add in my reel to reel and analogue mixer and spring reverb etc.

So coming from a hip hop sampling records guy. Every records drums sound unique. Some more than others.
This raises the question how different can drums sound.
The toontrack stuff should be a pretty good education on the different snares etc.
What did the famous breakbeats sound like in the room?
As juicy mentioned. What about plate reverb etc.

This will be my exciting mission. Using toontrack sounds, analogue hardware and maybe UAD EMT140 plate reverb, I could try to get the sounds close to the break beats.

So how much ground is covered by the toontrack libraries and especially C&V will be revealed to me soon.
Until then I am assuming the need for more drum kits. But I am coming from the listener, sampling perspective.
Hearing the different mics on the same kit on the Abbey road demos was a real eye opener for me.

I am glad that the drummer from C&V us confident in the sounds provided. I am sure you all understand my perspective to a certain extent.

Real vinyl wasn’t mentioned by any posters.
Tape worked wonders for the Abbey Road drum kits.

I am sure there are many drum sounds that aren’t covered by the current TT libraries. Because there are so many variables and sounds out there.

And lastly, I really appreciate the work TT and the library developers have done. It is the next step in drum sampling technology and realism for me. I am loving my TD3 kit.

I bought a pair of Zildjian 14 inch A Customs. Because I always had a plan to use a real hihat with the TD3 kit.
I’m gonna get a 13 inch next.

It is amazing the drum sounds those funk groups got.

[Romanp]

http://www.moderndrummer.com/site/2011/12/10-indispensable-funk-albums/
Oh man!

[Romanp]

Melvin Bliss- Synthetic Substitution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0T48Qwn4dA
The Honeydrippers – Impeach the President
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqbEsS5kFb8
Lafayette Afro Rock Band – Hihache
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3ckIovZRwk&feature=related
Fonky!

[Romanp]

Please more dampened drums, tunings, sidesticks, tape saturated (moderately perhaps is safest). Heavily dampened.
Listen to late 60s early 70s dance music.
Please my Swedish friends.
Roman.

[Romanp]

Disappointing to get no replies.
I am in the e druming forum aren’t I.

What latencies are people getting for playing SD2 live?
Roman.

[Romanp]

Yup, they have to.
Enough modern ringing drums. It’s time to get dirty and tight.
Dampened funk, reggae etc drums. Tunings. Sidesticks for every drum. I wouldn’t say no to tape. I would say YES!
And when you’ve finished volume 1 do volume 2, 3, 4 forever ha ha!

[Romanp]

Yes, Custom and Vintage will be the first SDX I get. Definitely.
You can hear the short punchy snares even with the music on top.
Excellent sounding library from the demos.

It seems to me you could almost sell individual drums. Although this would go against the ‘same room’ sound philosophy which keeps all the drums related sound wise.

When I listened to the demos of 60s and 70s Abbey road drummer, there are tracks where they alter the mic levels. It changes the drums a lot. Almost like different sounding breakbeats.
I’m just thinking of how different drums sound on records. It is also the mic positions etc Equalisation. Compression etc.

So the way Toontrack has presented the sounds and editing may be the best for options.

I intend to edit the drums in the software, maybe overload a mic pre when tracking them, saturate my revox c270 reel to reel, eq on my ramsa wr8816 mixer, compress or parallel compress with an analogue tube compressor.

And then maybe put other instruments on top, ha ha.

The jamaican reggae snare sound of the late 70s early 80s is usually quite bright. Maybe eqing the Toontrack sounds can get me close.

Being able to add a layer with the x drum feature will allow me to add clicky bass drums or maybe snare snappy attack.

I have read about filtering drums into separate frequency layers. If you had the drums on two faders you could high pass one channel and low pass the other and play with the balance.
I think disco did this.

It would allow control over the click of the bass drum and the thud.

I want to bring separate SD channels out of my soundcard into my analogue mixer.

[Author]

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