2

[PFozz]

Hi,

Here is a quickly drawn diagram of something that may work.
Be aware that hitting both the pads at the same time will send a strong signal (use it at your own risk!).
This workaround may require some adjustments of your module settings as well.

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi Shawn,

Sorry for being so late to post something in this thread.
A piezo can act as a microphone and actually, sticking a piezo inside an acoustic guitar is a known cheap way to get an electro-acoustic instrument.
Though, it would be difficult to get 2 different sounds from 2 piezos fixed on a same object. On the other hand, you can stick each of them on 2 very different objects producing different frequencies.

Anyway, a soundcard with 8 inputs is surely your best bet 😉

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Thank you mikentosh for the kind words and welcome to this forum !

Best regards,
PFozz

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi air-v,

Blaufeld’s solution will work for a single zone cymbal.

A plastic cymbal is very noisy, though and you can dampen it with the bitumen tape trick.
If you plan to build a a 3Z cymbal from a plastic training cymbal, then THEORICALLY, it should work…
But I haven’t tested this solution myself (I should, actually).

Best regards,
PFozz

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hello Luca,

2Z/3Z cymbals

You’re right about your strokes being transmitted to both piezos, and the solution is all about the way you rcymbal is dampened.
In the related thread of this forum, you can see that the extreme part of the cymbal is not dampened :

A stroke an the edge of the cymbal will significantly excite the edge piezo, while a stroke on the bow won’t do that much.
The Keith Raper’s Circuit acts as a switch which is “on” when the signal provided by the edge piezo is “strong” enough.
That’s how it works 🙂

Practice pad conversion

The steel plate must be rigid enough, but not too much… You’re right again.
This steel plate is used to transmit vibrations, so the silverpaper from your kitchen is useless in such a situation.
The thickness of a “large coffee can lid” is quite good (more generally something that you can slightly bend)
If the metal plate is too thick, the signal produced by the piezo won’t be “strong” enough.
If it is too thin, it will be useless or problematic (false triggering, …).

Hope this helps,
Best regards,
PFozz

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi Mark,

(Ouch , 20th of August – Was I lost in the outter space ?)

I couldn’t let a “Tap-your-desk-and-get-denounced-by-the-teacher’s-pet” buddy with 0 answers 😉
Times have changed and students have the opportunity to play drums with an i-phone nowadays. “Desk drumming” is an art we, old drummers, have to promote !

Well… There may be 2 solutions :

1. You could build a kind of stand-alone MIDI kick drum from an hockey puck, a piezo, foam, some wood and… an home made module.
This solution would be efficient, but quite expensive.

2. You may also build just a foot trigger (hockey puck, piezo, foam + wood), connect it to an audio input of your computer/audio interface and then use a trigger-to-audio VST plugin (TbT Audio E-Kit trigger, for exemple).

Just tell me if you’re still interested by such a thing.

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi Raketemensch,

Interesting project !

For multi-zone trigger pads, you can try one thin piece of MDF + 3 small cylinders of foam per zone.
Attach a piezo and 3 cylinders of foam (diameter=approx. 3 cm / height=approx. 4cm) under each piece of MDF and then fix all the obtained triggers to a thick and large piece of wood.
You can shape the small triggers the way you want depending on your needs but a space of at least 5mm between these triggers must be preserved (to avoid serious crosstalking issues).
Finally, put a large sheet of rubber over your newly created multi-zone trigger.

Set the threshold (module side) of each trigger to a value that is high enough to kill any residual crosstalking issues.
I’ve built such a thing in the past and the results were quite good.

Oh, and BTW, here’s a picture of my home made Cajons (the small one was a gift for my son ^^).
So easy to build and so fun to play !

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi born2write77,

First of all, sorry for the delay…

1> Yes. The module is a part of the e-kit. If you buy a TD Kit, you’ll get the triggers, a stand and a module.

2&3> Basically, a module translates the strength of your hits to messages containing a note to play and how “loud” this note must be played (note number + velocity). The quality of a module determines how fast and accurate is the translation. We can say that it affects the performance quality then, but it doesn’t affect the sound quality.

4> A module is a MIDI controller.

3k is a nice budget and should suffice your expectations.

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi Kramik,

I’m using this one in almost all my triggers :

http://www.conrad.fr/transducteur_ceramique_piezo_p_18925_19020_224749_224750_FAS

You should be able able to get the same transducer from http://www.conrad.be

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi ricepattydaddy,

> It would do trigger sounds when i didnt hit it.

Your best bet is to check the solder points on both the piezo and the socket.
A “broken” solder point (on the piezo ceramic part especially) may be the cause of such a problem.
Otherwise, the piezo may have to be “restuck”.

> It will trigger maby 1 out of 7 hits when i play the bass drum with it.

Does it work using a stick instead of a kick beater ?

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi jakkerd,

> For rimshots on my snare, do i use the keith raper piezo-switch diagram?For rimshots on my snare, do i use the keith raper piezo-switch diagram?

In your case, using a TriggerIO, you don’t need the Keith Raper’s Circuit (just 2 piezos : Bow piezo to tip/sleeve / Rim piezo to ring/sleeve).

> Can I pot 2 single zone toms on a single input and how would i connect those electrically?

You can do it if your trigger is plugged into a “piezo/piezo” “splitable” capable input.
In this case, you need a Y-cable (2 female mono jacks -> 1 male stereo jack) :

Tom #1 : Tip/Sleeve (female jack #1) -> Tip/Sleeve (male jack)
Tom #2 : Tip/Sleeve (female jack #2) -> Ring/Sleeve (male jack)

> Can i add another trigger io if i need more inputs?

Yes. Though, unless your VST host can merge the MIDI messages coming from 2 ports, use the MIDI sockets to link a module to the other one.

> can i use the variable hall hi-hat system on a alesis?

If by “hall”, you mean the Clavia “hall sensor” hihat system, then you can’t use it with a TriggerIO.

Good luck with the construction of your e-kit !

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi Acoustiiks,

You’re welcome !

> Inputs

The Megadrum module should have enough inputs to suit your needs (32 inputs is an amazing amount of inputs for a single module – 56 may be enough for a small electronic “tap” accordeon ^^).

> Piezos polarity

Here’s the info you need : http://www.toontrack.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=36342
(theorically, the Alesis wiring diagram should be used if your module is the Megadrum).

Note that the polarity isn’t that critical in your situation. Both wiring possibilities will work, but if you plan to buy a Roland module later, use the Roland wiring diagram since the polarity affects the positional sensing accuracy (mostly).

> could that be done to those practice cymbals with no bit tape?

(thank you for the kind words ^^)
I’m not sure about it (maybe there’s something to do with 2 practice cymbals). Though, the bitumen tape trick may work with a practice cymbal but AFAIK, it’s never been tested.

> for the 2 zone snare, could keiths circuit work as well?

Yes, no problem.

> Superior (learn function)

According to the Megadrum home page, the module “Supports 3 zone Roland style cymbals (e.g. CY-12/CY-15)”, so your home made cymbals (featuring Keith’s circuit) should work.
Actually, a Roland 3 zone cymbal works as 2 combined dual triggers and needs 2 dual inputs :

For example, we have :

Input 1 <- Bow (Tip/Sleeve) + Bell (Ring/Sleeve)
Input 2 <- Bow (Tip/Sleeve) + Edge (Ring/Sleeve)

The velocity is always computed from the bow zone signal (tip/sleeve).
Then the state of the “switches” (bell/edge – ring/sleeve couples) indicates which zone is hitted and one of the 2 inputs is ignored depending on the hitted zone :

Bell=Off + Edge=Off : Bow zone -> the module sends the note assigned to the Input #1 Bow zone.
Bell=On + Edge=Off : Bell zone -> the module sends the note assigned to the Input #1 Bell zone.
Bell=Off + Edge=On : Edge zone -> the module sends the note assigned to the Input #2 Edge zone.

(as you can see, there’s no need to assigned a note to the Input #2 bow zone and finally, we have 3 different notes to assign – one for each zone)

All of this also shows why it is so critical to insulate each zone from each other if your 3 zone cymbal is built around 3 piezos and 2 Keith’s circuits.
If the bow and/or edge zone are too “sensible”, you won’t be able to trigger the bow zone and if they are sensible enough to be triggered whereever the cymbal is hitted, you’ll get 2 notes (bell+edge) on each hit !

> Choke function

A “choke” is usually translated to a MIDI “Key Aftertouch” message (reading the Megadrum home page, this module may send a CC instead – to be verified)
This key aftertouch message contains a note number which is the same as the note assigned to the chokeable zone.
The Superior 2 “Envelope” feature is what you need to “choke” cymbals from a key aftertouch message.
For Superior 1, please check the “Fade (out)” feature.

> what if i just wired each piezo to its own seperate jack and its own 1/4 input on the megadrum? would that work without too much cross talk setting?

I wish it could work this way but unfortunately, it won’t 😉

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi Air-V,

The PM-16 has been designed to be used with rubber pads and microphones.
It’s still an excellent option for studio when you want to “midify” mic’ed acoustic drums.

As you probably know, a “mesh head” trigger usually can’t produce a signal that is as strong as the one produced by a rubber pad and you’re right about the “MIC” position (this is the one to use).

Unfortunately, if the input your trigger is connected to is set to “MIC” / Level=Max, there’s no easy solution to make the all thing work “naturally”.
Though, you may also try various MIN VELOCITY and THRESHOLD values to get better results.

You may also re-design your trigger, but this is obviously not a good idea.
Some years ago, my “mesh head” triggers were specifically designed to work with my PM-16 and later, I totally rebuilt them so they better match my TD-8.

In any case, the PM-16 is still an excellent secondary module and it’s worth the 50€ you paid to get one. I’ll personnally never sell mine 😉
I still use my PM-16 for extra mono cymbals and exotic (mono) triggers but I must admit I don’t use it anymore for my BD, SD or Toms…

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[PFozz]

Hi,

Are you talking about the site linked to my signature ?
In this case, the new site is just here, at Toontrack.com 🙂
(My signature is up-to-date now. Thanks for the info ^^)

The direct link to ‘edrum for free’ is :
http://www.toontrack.com/edrum_for_free.asp

Best regards.

www.eareckon.com

[Author]

Replies