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[Nathan]

…will the kick, snare, and toms, still have bleedable channel in OH, AMB C, M, F, even if i replace it ?

Almost certainly if you are bringing in x-drums from other SDX libraries; I think all SDXs have OH and room mics of some type.

I hope you have gathered by now that with SD2, you set up a kit, send it MIDI, and it gives you “mic signals” in return. Complications would arise if the mic setup for the base kit session and the x-drums’ session(s) were different. Here you would enter the microphone assignment page and see the existing mic channels for the base kit and the extra mic channels from the x-drum.

SD2 will try to match up the mic sets for both sessions automatically (eg OH on base kit and x-drum on same mixer channel, etc), but it may leave any non-obvious mics temporarily “in-limbo” for you to manually assign to “close” mic types (eg a close ambient and a close ambient mono if you so wished), or to a completely new channel in SD2’s mixer. Sometimes you may not wish to go with the automatic choices and will want to set up your own “mic channels”. Worse case, you have all mic signals go to separate new mixer channels, but in SDXs, most can be shared with reasonably common channels -it’s just that some libraries have more mics and/or effect channels.

An OH bleed would only be possible with an x-drum if the OH source from the x-drum kit was mapped to the OH channel for the base kit. Then the (eg) x-snare will show at the bottom of the base kit’s OH bleed fader pop-up. If they weren’t mapped together like this, then you’d have the x-snare bleed in its own OH channel and not in the base kit’s OH channel. The same follows for the ambient mic returns -common channel, common bleeds; separate channels, separate bleeds.

I hope you can follow this, it’s a lot easier to see by trying than by explaining! The same should broadly happen reasonably seamlessly with Kicks, toms and brassware, depending again on how you combined the mic sets.

Just bear in mind that the room sounds from (eg) Allaire and C&V will be somewhat different!!

I hope this is helpful and making sense…

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SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[Nathan]

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SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[Nathan]

These aren’t modelled, calculated if you like, William. They are real kits played in real rooms by real drummers and all of the mics were sampled for all of the drums, typically thousands of samples for each library.

Although you can mix and match to a degree with X-Drums, these have been recorded in discrete sessions, so you will not have the same mic setup for each session, and you will not have all drums and cymbals in all of the rooms. As such, it is not the same as opening a cupboard and setting the drums up in any room, with any mic configuration. The drums will have different room sounds for different studios and will mix differently according to thise factors and the actual number and method they were miked up with. There are clever routing/x-drum tricks where you can play the close-mic sound of one drum and add that to the ambient sound of another (usu to import snares, using the base kit room sound), which I can help you with when you’re ready, but I think you need some more basic familiarity first.

If you are familiar with a mixing console and basic FX like high-pass filters, EQ, compression and gating, then look through these settings you’ve been playing with and locate the “Overhead” channels along with the ambient mics. See what filters and EQ have been applied in the SD2 mixer FX slots and press “bypass” on a few to see what difference is made. You will find that it is quite common to filter off frequencies below up to about 400Hz in these presets, this gives the drums more frequency range to exist in, and will generally then not be fighting for tonal space with whatever music the drumkits end up being mixed with.

These presets are not necessarily designed to be just used as they are, it is expected that you will tune the EQ in to match your music, adjust the kick and snare punch with the compression, back-off the HPF to allow more tonal room to the cymbals (all hypothetical examples, here). Try bypassing what’s been done on the overheads and room mics and see if it restores the cymbal sounds you’re happier with.

You are right in your interpretation of the Ambient microphone channels; the further away from the kit, the more the proportion of room sound to kit sound you will get, with its characteristic reverberation and colouration. These won’t have a lot of bottom-end by design, as lower frequencies in a reverberent sound can soon contribute to a muddy, unclear mix.

You don’t have to get involved to any depth, but this is a drum engine with more than a nod to the serious drummers and engineers in the business. It has been designed to cater for people who are used to and expect first-class drum sounds made with professional kit, mics and techniques in suitable rooms.

Although Superior Drummer isn’t an “entry-level” drum sampler, it isn’t to say that you can’t use it straight out of the box. In fact the combined presets are wonderful “entry-tickets” to ready-mixed sounds set up by very experienced and sought-after people (Neil Dorfsman, Peter Henderson, Chuck Ainlay, who’s he? -that blew me away) -and you can actually pick through their settings, work out what they do and why, copy or adapt their methods , and tweak to your heart’s content.

Edit: There is a way to bring up the Ride level on a kit by using the x-drum functionality.

Essentially, you disable the Ride and then bring it back as an X-Drum so you can duplicate the OH mics and have only the ride in the second set. You have to reassign MIDI with “Steal Current” and alter the default miking setup with your new X-Ride -I’ll write you some instructions if you want, but you will need to get a little more familiar with SD2 and how it works to get the most out of it -get reading that manual!

Edit2: You’ve deleted half of your post, did you change your mind?

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SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[Nathan]

I think SD2 mapping is based on GM-extended, but it will play correctly if fed GM (correct me if I’m wrong here, but I’ve played GM-loops into it).

The thing about GM is it’s just a bit limited, not enough notes available for many (any) drum articulations, and that will be reflected in the sounds you get from GM drum MIDI. More articulations, more life-like and organic the possibilities.

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SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[Nathan]

ORIGINAL: OCD Adam

Planetnine, this is a HUGE help! Thanks so much. I’m gonna try this out. So, ultimately, my best bet is a bigger system, though?

I’m sorry, I missed this post Adam.

Having a system with sub-bass cabs should allow you to run your mid-hi cabs/tops at a higher level than before without clipping, as some of the headroom-eating low frequencies will be catered for by the “subs”. This is providing they’re connected correctly and also providing they are run inside their rating of course.

With powered or “active” PA, you usually run the signal into the sub’s input and then out of a “high-pass” or mid-high output on the sub’s backplate into the midhigh cabs. This means the signal fed to those cabs has the low frequencies filtered out that the subs are meant for. You then balance the sound, sub to mid-high with the mid-high cab input gain. Note you are increasing the gain or level to these top cabs, but the actual volume will depend on the signal level and frequencies being played thugh them.

Have I misunderstood the original issue? That you just needed to reduce the level of the mp3? It is a shock lesson in the fact that peak level and perceived volume can mean completely different things. As RobJames suggests, a hardware mixer is the ideal way to balance your drums and mp3 in a live situation, but this requires separate outputs from your DAW, and of course an available mixer. You should be able to do this with your laptop with some care, setting the faders, but use a small mixer if you can as it will give you meters and grabbable controls just where you need them -more convenient and safer too.

What RobJames may be forgetting is the Mackie 824 is a studio monitor designed for monitoring unprocessed sounds, and as such will cope with high headroom-requiring, “spikey”, unprocessed drums by default, it’s meant to. I wouldn’t want to run a gig with a pair if I had to bring them back intact though people forget about the inverse-square law, they wouldn’t stand up to a pair of horn-loaded, constant directivity boxes to get the noise where it was needed, even at the same power.

Have you solved your issue now? Does it work as required?

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SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[Nathan]

I wish you all peace and a restful few days.

Here’s to 2013…

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SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[Author]

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