1

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

No, but it is about having a good feeling by tweaking things and playing with knobs.

I don’t have the time or energy to chase things that don’t really matter to the music at hand. And neither do those I do work for. If a client wants something I will try and do my damndest to do do it for them. Other than that if it comes to something that makes no sense and they won’t (or can’t) hear then that’s that. Been at this long enough to know the deal.

I try and help where I can with posting here and other forums the wisdom I’ve come by over the decades so take that as you will. Do I know everytihng? No. Never said that. But I do know (for the most part) what works and what won’t. I treat drums in SD3 or any other drum vi the same way I treat physical drums.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

• This post was modified 21 hours, 34 minutes ago by drumjack52.

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

PS I found a way to randomly increase or decrease the velocity without touching the maxium velocity. e.g. velocity 124 should remain 124 and 118-100 should be increased by 5. You can draw and select all notes BELOW 124, then increase them.

So you found a solution but the question is can you really hear the difference between the hits? Have a musician friend do a blind listening test with you and see if he can tell the difference.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

mattoconnell408 wrote:

Am experiencing similar issues with V51. Digital ride is super quiet.

Check your velocity curve settings in the drum brain.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

You are right. Do you know the answer to my other questions please?

1) How do you set a velocity of 114? The grid editor always jumps from 115 to 113…I can set all other velocities just fine. Normally, you can use shift to e.g. increase or decrease the panning slider, but not for velocities.

2) How can I have a maximum velocity of x with a random variation? I don’t want to use e.g. 122 random 3 to create velocities of 119-125, but use 124 as the default velocity, then subtract a random 0-x velocity, but without increasing the 124.

You just don’t get it do you? That little bit of velocity doesn’t mean anything and you’ll never hear it. If you were working in a daw with the MIDI then the velocity change is easy. Take for instance in ProTools (which I use). I can set a velocity of say 120 with a random variation of say 3. That way I would have random velocity possibilities of 117 to 123.  Then tailor the center number (120 in my example) to be the middle of what you want. Even the greatest of drummers would not be able to control their velocities like that. Not Neil Peart, Vinnie Coliuta, Buddy Rich – no human.

That being said SD3 can’t do what you want as near as I know.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

Thanks, I know…but maybe there is a recommendation for certain velocities, e.g. 124, 114, 104, 94, 84…

I’d suggest not overthinking things like you have a tendency to do. The absolute number doesn’t mean a thing. If it sounds good then it is good. Precise numbers don’t mean a thing in music except for maybe time signature like a waltz which is 3/4 time.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

1

Thanked by: Bear-Faced Cow

[drumjack52]

BlueMistral wrote:

it is humanly impossible to sample 127 velocity layers, that’s why round robins are used, 2-3 layers for kicks, 6 to 8 layers for other drums, dispersed in all the round robins

While true I do know that for some piano libraries machines have been built to take the place of a human when doing the sampling so they could get all possible velocity values. I don’t know if any drum VST has done that just not TT. I’d like an official statement as to how many layers TT uses though and what they are.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

Graham: Be careful as the MIDI notes trigger different articulations depending on whether you’re using the core library or an SDX. For example notes 126 is snare rim shot and 127 are indeed the two articulations you mention in the core library but in Death and Darkness they’re snare rim shot and sidestick and in Area 33 126 is snare rim fx and 127 is snare only. Not all the SDX’s follow the same MIDI note number/articulation scheme (nor are they all according to the MIDI spec either).

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

I don’t get a ‘special OH’ channel when I create a tom/rack tom – just routing to the usual OH mixer channel in addition to the usual direct mic. Creating a china gives me a  mono OH and it’s own stereo OH channel. Tambourines give me a tambourine OH channel and the direct mic channel. To be frank I don’t mess with the pannings especially with the OH mics. Nor the direct mics for that matter. The panning orientation will change depending on whether you’re using drummer or audience perspective. I tend to mix from an audience perspective. Most producers will mix drums so that they’re in the middle of the sound field unless going for some kind of weird effect. And as I keep saying the OH mics are not meant to give spacial auditory cues – the meat of the sound should come from any direct mics IMO.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

Thank you!

I’m getting closer to fixing my issue. I’ve added a tambourine that doesn’t have a real overhead signal. It’s always barely audible…I’d need to set the level to +12.

Yes, working without room etc. is easier. I used to have simple samples for kick, snare, toms, cymbals…one file…easy to mix, but thin sound.

Tambourines aren’t all that loud to begin with. If it’s to be a featured part the producer would probably designate a mic just for that. You’d do well to search YouTube videos on recording different things (like how to mic, etc.). Percussionists will often have their own mic setup. As always don’t judge something in solo mode but with all the other pieces playing.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

It can work depending on how the two modules are connected to the computer. I’ve never used USB MIDI but old school 5 pin MIDI (the round connector). Traditionally MIDI has three connectors – in/out/through. MIDI in is for receiving MIDI from somewheres, out for sending MIDI to somewheres and through is a passthrough that takes MIDI in and burps it right out to MIDI out with no interaction from the module in the middle. You would need to go from one module via it’s MIDI out to the MIDI through connector of module two and go from the MIDI out of module two to your computer. At least that’s how MIDI used to work. MIDI with multiple modules and daisy chaining isn’t always easy to grok and can drive one to drink. Thankfully you’re dealing with one manufacturer’s boxes – put multiple makes in the mix and oh boy…

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

Ok, I don’t understand the mixer…even the default kit and mixer is strange. The default Death & Darkness -> death mit has two splashes. They are about the same volume in their close mics, but the OH of the second one is 3DB louder. Why? Shouldn’t every splash have the same volume at x velocity?

If I use the same close mic, e.g. -16db as the default uses, the OH hits of the second splash are 3 DB louder…in order to have the same loudness for both splashes in the OH channel, I have to reduce the second splash in its close mic…but then the second splash’s close mic is some DB lower.

I am obsessive and want every china and crash to use the same volume for the same velocity….without 3db differences.

EDIT Maybe it is because I edit volume in the “Drums” section by adding the kit pieces, “level”?

• This post was modified 1 week ago by LeanderL.

Your issue is you don’t understand the way a physical drum kit is mic’d. Specifically the overheads which as I said are meant to capture the whole kit. You’ll never get kit pieces to be the same levels in overheads – that’s something people who mic drum kits for a living have struggled with since recording began. The best one can hope for is a compromise for the wanted overall sound and some kit pieces will tend to be a bit louder than others. I’d suggest searching YouTube for drum micing tips/procedures to see what real world producers do. SD3 and it’s content is recorded by real world producers using techniques they use on a daily basis and each producer has their own method of working. Sure it can be manipulated to a certain extent but there’s certain things that can’t be changed like the panning of kit pieces in overhead mics simply because of what overheads are meant to do. It’s also why when you route a kit piece direct mic to a different mixer channel there is still sound in the overheads.

Of course you could always just not use the overheads mics and mute them.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

All you’re moving is the direct mic for the rides – there will always be signal in the overhead mics. That’s what overhead mics are for – to capture/get a general overview of the drum kit.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

When you select a kit piece, you can assign it to a new mixer channel, e.g. “crashes”. Then you can move all crash cymbals there. However, they will disappear from the OH channel.

Please tell me how you are able to move the crashes to another mic channel? I’ve never been able to. Everything else in SD3 and SDX’s I can move the direct mics to another channel and they still stay in the overheads. It’s the crashes that I’ve never been able to do so. Historically there’s things you’ve come on here asking about that you’re not quite clear on what you want or how you’re supposedly doing things.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

I’ve never been able to group the crashes to a mic other than the overheads. No problem with all the other kit pieces and at least for the other cymbals there will still be signal to the overhead mics/channel if you also do a ‘custom’ routing of the direct mics to a mixer channel.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[drumjack52]

LeanderL wrote:

It’s just my virtual drummer. With a real drummer, I wouldn’t need Superior Drummer.

Mixer vs. grid editor seems to have problems. One shot 1 = sticks…then I added a second cowbell and now one shot 1 = the new cowbell.
In the mixer , sticks are sticks, but in the grid editor, the sticks are one shot 1. The new cowbell is one shot 3 in the grid editor.

Start a new thread for this other issue rather than add OT to this one.

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.4.1
Area 33 1.0.0
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

• This post was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by drumjack52.

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