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[Dingo]

ORIGINAL: BigJguitar

if you quad track your rythm guitars so basically 2 tracks hard left and 2 tracks hard right, you get a massive tone. Just make sure you can play to a click track and that all 4 tracks are played exactly the same and on time.

My question about this is simple is it ok to just clone the first guitar take, or is it a must to actually record 4 tracks of the same thing with actual playing? Can you say use a quick delay and cab effects to create the desired sound?

The guys have answered this question above.

But if you’re stuck with only 1 guitar part and need to thicken it you could copy it add a single band EQ on each guitar track. Use a High Pass filter on one and a Low Pass filter on the other the find a nice cross over point between the two and you can get quite a nice sound.

Also sending a bus with delay settings of 0 – 50ms (at the most) will make it sound thicker as you ear cant hear the two sounds separately. If you push it more than that you’ll start to hear the delay.

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

(pitch shifters, doubling an octave down etc), to most would be the last ports of call, due to the fact they are often cheap work-arounds for a scale-able mix.

When I’m talking about using pitch shifters an octave down I hope you understand I don’t mean using it with 100% wet setting so you can only hear the lower octave and none of the original signal… What I should of noted in the original is you’re tuning will ultimately effect this method…

I wasn’t saying you were *steering* people into trouble, rather you weren’t making people aware that some of those techniques have inherent foibles. I never said you implied this was the “only” process.

Sorry, but the way you worded things didn’t read like that & again, you don’t need a degree in all the technical mum-bo-jumbo to get a good sound + if the guitarist wanted such effects on the track would you still say no? Because of the inherent foibles??

I was just saying for the effect you are trying to produce there are probably better/cleaner ways of doing it esp if other tracks have chorus in the mix.

Yes, and I never said there wasn’t any other better/clearer ways to do it, I was just listing a creative way in which you could.

Someone already did a nice little job of it for reference, but I guess you already have that link 🙂

I’ve spent more time natting at you than to even notice such a link –

Yeah there’s nothing better than hearing a pristine sounding bag of ****e 🙂

*chuckles*

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

Also, lets not forget the Genre of music you’re recording also affects how you approach things.

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

ORIGINAL: VOLiTiAN

Okay,

1) You’re right, there are no rules in music, but there is a “good practice”/sets of techniques that normally work together. If you’re looking to help people you don’t hold back the information.

I wasn’t holding back any information I simply listed a few basic tips. The point of this thread is for people to add to the list….

ORIGINAL: VOLiTiAN

2) Everything you do from the early source tone to the playing, the compressing EQ’ing etc etc is ALL going to add to the final mixdown, so yeah it might seem trivial at the early stages, but again why not educate people as to the potential pitfalls of what they themselves are introducing/adding to the mix. The further you progress with your music the more daunting the changes to be made can become.

I honestly can’t see what you’re banging on about? I simply listed a few very basic tips in which you could use to thicken it up or to make a single guitar sound bigger. I didnt list them as a 1, 2, 3 process. The point of this thread is for people to add content. I’m not “educating people into potential pitfalls” That’s insulting more than anything, you’re just trying to nit pick at things because you fail to understand me, you think everything I listed IS the definitive process of how you should get the heavy tone, it’s just a list of different techniques & tricks.

Why don’t you do a post on phase issues, instead of “holding back information”. I bet there’ll be people reading not even knowing what phase issues are or how they become apparent or how you fix them. You seem knowledgeable enough, why not share it.

ORIGINAL: VOLiTiAN
3) If you want to get something to “cut” through a mix, then why use chorus to push it? It’s forcing the issue, rather than carving a neat little place for it in the mix, techniques such as subtractive eq’ing normally help.

Again, you’re trying to argue about nothing. As I mentioned previously Chorus does help a part stand out in the mix is you use it subtley. Whether or not you want to use it is up to you, it’s just an option!

Here’s a tip, mix all the levels to what you think they should be in your session, then listen to you’re mix as a whole and make notes on what you can and can’t hear. Plan out what occupies each frequency area, If you spot some problems then approach the EQ and see if slight tweaks will fix it. If you can’t fix it with EQ leave it, otherwise you’ll spend hours being counter productive.

Also, don’t just dive in, solo the guitar and add a bunch of EQ because it might sound good on it’s own but crap in conjunction with everything else! The only EQ I ever do on guitars is a low roll off and a slight presence boost or a cut around the low mids or high mids. It’s real easy to ruin a guitar sound with EQ especially if you’re a beginner.

Why not write a massive post about technical EQ, frequency ranges and instrument ranges, EQ types etc… ? You seem quick enough to keep arguing with me over nothing instead contributing to the thread and being informative!

ORIGINAL: VOLiTiAN
Personally if you’re struggling to hear differences in players, and you feel that really doesn’t ad up to much in the overall sound, then great, I imagine ignorance is bliss, the performance comes first and then the tone, hence why re-amping solution removes the onus to be on the correct cab/pre/eq etc combination and shifts the requirement back to the musician to perform. You can foul up a great piece of music with the wrong tone, of course you can, but you sure as hell will have to work harder to polish a turd…

We are on the same page but you’ve miss interpreted what I wrote. It does help to polish a turd if the tones good though 😛

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

No, my attitude towards phase issues is: Although minor issues might crop up, unless it’s anything majorly obvious which is causing a real problem then YES you will have to address it. It’s not like a Major issue will rear it’s ugly head if you’re using a single microphone placed correctly. You just have to be more aware when quad tracking. Even so, as the old saying goes “if it’s not broke don’t fix it” it’s about the music at the end of the day and what you think sounds good. There are no rules as to how you should / shouldn’t do things. Only guidelines.

I don’t think I was putting an argument forward I was simply saying as a guitarist I find that using chorus in small amounts will make your lead guitar A) cut through the mix and B) sound cool! I wasn’t saying ” YES USE IT 100% of the time on your guitars”

It’s almost reading like you’re assuming that what I originally listed IS the definitive process you should go through to achieve a “heavy tone”…

“Also, guitar tone is not as “GOOD” as the amp/cab to start with, it’s about the performance, re-amping is a very simple solution if you ever want to change the mix in the future, so tone almost becomes moot “

– Yes, I’m talking tone not performance. The feel, tightness & dynamics are different from player to player and yes their control over the instrument effects the tone but not so much so that the average guitarist sound leaps an bounds apart from another using similar gear… it’s note choice placement & dynamics that distinguishes guitarists from one another, not tone. But, If you use bad mic placement, crap amps or just plain horrible amp settings then their performance will not translate across and become effectively moot anyway… Which was my point.

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

Not a huge fan of 70% of the waves plug-ins. The only one’s I find my self using are the SSL, API, V-Series and the H-Delay. I like using Sonalksis stuff mainly, they sound great and are very flexible. Blue tubes by Nomad Factory is another great set but I don’t use them that much because they don’t sound great on everything.

It’s not about believing the hype it’s about using your ears and what suits your taste. There’s only a couple PSP products I like, the XENON and some of the the vintage stuff the rest leaves with little desire. Another good company to check out is Tone Projects, formally known as OptiumFX.. They make a GREAT compressor and Texturing product. Always loved the Image line plug-ins! You can get such a decent sounding mix with those within minuets! Fruity Loops FTW 🙂

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

ORIGINAL: VOLiTiAN

1) What are you doing in the mix process when it comes to the bass/guitars octave down situation? How are they not conflicting as they’re in the same register if I understand your post correctly.

It all depends on what’s being played and what space is been taken up, if there’s room for laying a lower octave then go for it. If not don’t bother. A bit like laying certain words with vocals to emphasize them.

ORIGINAL: VOLiTiAN

2) Why introduce chorus for a stereo effect, true it’s a no linear way of offsetting the audio but it does introduce inherent phase issues..

Why not? I think people get too caught up in the technical side of things especially with phase problems. If it sounds good use it, it’s not like the listener is going to be criticizing the mix for phase issues…

Chorus works well very lightly on tracks from time to time (especially lead guitar), i’m not saying to use it ALL the time. Just depends on the situation.

The guitar tone is as GOOD as the recording & amp to start with. Quad tracking is good but I think it’s a little excessive (if we’re talking 4 channels per guitar) , you can get a good tone just from 1 cab and head set up using 2 microphones hardly a need to double track the part with 2 microphones. But again, what ever works, works…

I’ve know people to use filters on the guitar panning one L40 and one R50. they sound terrible soloed but sound ace in the mix. Another thing I’ve come across is using a desser to take the harshness out the high end.

Generally I like to keep it simple with guitar tracks to get a thick tone. Use less distortion, a fair amount of compression and some slight EQ adjustments to get the bite and that’s it really…

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

What software are you using? You can just score in the midi notes to make this.

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

ORIGINAL: satrianalf

hello,

just listened to “too much to be” many times. Beautiful song !

Yeah, that’s one of the local chaps I’ve spent some time with producing his album after the first engineer he had made a right dogs ear of it. Had to do a lot of editing on tracks he didn’t want to re-record, was a nightmare! He’s a guitarist / singer songwriter. He’s done some pretty nice stuff. You can hear it at http://www.myspace.com/barronone

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

Big Jguitar, I’ll post a short thread if you want on getting heavy tones.

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

Nice playing sir, like your note choices. Mix sounds great too!

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

Gorilla??? More like… CHUGZILLA!

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

Ahh crumbs!

Little Metal Tune
http://soundcloud.com/redaudio/red-audio-frag-house-mix-2

Dave Barron
http://soundcloud.com/redaudio/dave-barron-too-much-to-be

Radio Package
http://soundcloud.com/redaudio/stafford-fm-sweepers-idents

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

Kick

Ratio 5:1

* Threshold: -10 to -30.
Look at the peak reduction meter, depending what the input gain is you might have to keep pulling the threshold down. I like about -4 to -10db gain reduction.

* Attack 20ms

* Release 0.1ms

As for EQ it all depends on the kick and where it’s natural frequency’s sit. So as a guide line:

* Roll off anything below 42hz

* Boost around 50hz – 80hz for low end punch

* Problem areas are around near 120hz – 250hz (boomy or resonant) 300 – 400hz (boxy or cardboard like) so find the problem and cut it by -4db or – 9db

* 600hz – 1k on some kicks you can get a nice wooden poke by boosting around this area.

* 2k – 6k pay around boosting between these to get a more snappy or clicky sound.

* 8k – 12k for crispness & air.

Regards, Marcus.

[Dingo]

Have you tried layering the Toms ? I’ve double up on them before and detuned one to give it more low punch. Takes a bit of fiddling but you can pull it off. Or you could just use the toms out of Metal foundry? I prefer the toms out of that library.

Regards, Marcus.

[Author]

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