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[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

I agree with the points posted in the links, but I will again stress that it’s the musician who decides what good sound is when he pays someone to record and mix. What is good sound in one music style is often totally unsuitable in another. This especially goes for extreme music, where it’s often more desirable to get a natural yet chaotic sound, too much polish is often not wanted at all.
 
This is always a problem when sound engineers not used to the demands of extreme music makes it too clinical, tame and “perfect”.
 
Just to clarify on the hihat issue, it’s not that I necessarily want a loud hihat, but one which makes a lot of sound. There’s a difference.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

Not to be an idiot here, but sound engineers and producers do not judge what good sound is or not. If I want a loud and noisy hihat, I don’t care what they think about the issue. And for what is more important or not in death metal, that is not for you to decide either. I have been playing drums for over twenty years (E-drums for five), and I think I know what I want and like by now. My playing style requires a loud hihat, and I will have a loud hihat, even if some people thinks it’s not pleasant or “right”. I know I sound like an idiot again, but playing loud and thrashy rock is not exactly comparable to the sound needed for death metal with basically constant use of double kicks (which means the hihat will be open at all times).
 
And I still refuse to adjust my technique for E-drums. They are the substitute, not the other way around. It’s not like I am sitting here with 2B sticks and bangs on it like an idiot either. I just want to play it like I would a real kit, and get roughly the same response, and that does not require adjusting my technique, only adjusting the sensitivity of the pads. I am getting there, too.
 
Sorry, I got a bit carried away there. My point is that good sound usually means totally different things to different people, and that is especially true for extreme metal music.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

Actually, what I did was to assign the open 5 to the one note using the learn function, and it obviously registered the Hatsctrl anyway. I have now deleted all the hatsctrl stuff from my tracks, and it’s much better, they now sound like I want them to sound. By some gentle adjustments to the sensitivity on my TD-20 module I can dial in the sweet spot where I get the velocity I want straight away when playing from now on.

Good times. Thanks for the help

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

Well, I play death metal, and the hihat is not a thing of finesse. I just want a good sound from it, as close as possible to the real thing under those circumstances and with such playing. I thought the Metal Foundry at least would have that one covered. I think maybe it is now with the controller issue being out of the way, I’m just saying. It should be pretty straightforward getting a permanently open hihat to sound natural compared to one with all the nuances involving openness, tip/edge hits etc.

Ask any dedicated death metal drummer, and he/she will probably want a noisy hihat in the full open position most of the time.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

Yes, but I always keep it in the open position, so it’s only a matter of the feel I get from hitting it. It feels very heavy and dead, and I am always looking for items with a more natural feel. Nuances aren’t that important, as long as it sounds and feels like an open hihat would in real life.
 
And I try to hit everything the same way as I would a real kit, that’s the point. I will not adapt my playing to an E-kit more than absolutely necessary.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

ORIGINAL: John

Since I switched for a Hart ECymbal II hihat, I haven’t had the same problems.

How is that one? I think the Roland hihat is very heavy and noisy, it feels very clunky and unresponsive. Is the Hart more easily playable? Is it just a matter of plugging it in?

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

Thanks tons for the help! I will remedy my tracks later today. The snare positioning effect is also something i’ve been meaning to ask about. Brilliant stuff.
 
Thanks again
 
I hit the hihat pretty hard,  but maybe I can tighten it up even more. I’ll look into it.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

ORIGINAL: Whitten

In Pro Tools you go to the left hand track column. There you can select ‘notes’ or ‘velocity’, but also controller. So you should select foot control and have a look at the data on the track.
As an aside, having just used a TD20 with Superior, I can’t say I liked the sound of hi-hats at 127.
You can create a wash of swishy hi-hats at any velocity, and the hats at 127 sound hard and unbalanced (with the rest of the kit) to me.

Yeah, I am adjusting my hats to fit my style, so every hit doesn’t come out as 127 anymore.

I’ll try that tip first thing in the morning tomorrow, man. Thanks.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

So where is this TD-20 hihat specific data stored in the midi track? It gotta show up somewhere? I thought the other levels of openness had their own notes? I thought S2.0 only gets key “XX”, velocity “127” etc? Where is this buried info hidden?

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

I also notice that when I play back the part, the same notes always gets the closed treatment. However, if I click the midi note, the correct sound is produced, so it’s only a problem during playback.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

But how would these things appear in the midi track? There is nothing there except notes on one key, all with a velocity of 127.

And the problem hasn’t been there earlier with the Avatar hats.

Edit: oh, and the spring on my hihat stand is plenty tight.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

All right, here is a file with an example of the #3 in my first post, with some hits sounding like the hihat is almost closed.

http://www.easy-share.com/1906350596/Hihat issue.wma

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

Yeah, I’ve thought about it being some invisible thing going on, I just can’t think of what it could be. I generally record with a Roland TD-20 kit, where I use the hihat fully open always. I’ll see if I can get a sound sample going today.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

ORIGINAL: Scott

You’re going to have to post a link to an audio file for us to hear what your issue is.

All right, I can solo the hihats tomorrow and post a link here.

[Author]

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