Where are the Cymbal Controls

[Tele' O'Neil]

I’ve attempted to reset the Cymbals & have run into a slight problem. I want to re-pan the cymbals individually (within the stereo cymbal mixer channel) but cannot find the panning control in the properties control area for each cymbal. Where can I reset the panning?

I’d like to make a couple of suggestions to Toontrack.

#1 – When I tried to find the panning control (couldn’t find this feature in the manual) where is this control? When I looked up each individual cymbal they are labeled as “Cymbal ID #”, (Eg. Cymbal 1, Cymbal 2, etc.) & I think it would be helpful to have this identified on the actual right click (of the Graphic) so I know which one I’m adjusting rather than guessing & using the poke & find method. In addition to the Graphic perhaps the actual cymbal # (in the properties window) would light up brighter so I could see which one is being accessed. Whatever works!

#2 – I believe I’ve asked for this request in a previous post & that is to have the Sample Duration be available on the first (Drum View) page rather than on the (Mixer) page properties area. As a user I find I work there most of the time & having to click back & forth is a pain in the butt regardless of whether I can detach the mixer or not. It’s more sensible to have it there with the volume & tuning. Anything to do with the actual sample should be grouped together in one area. Although the panning is a mixer feature I think it should also be located (even it has been duplicated on the Mixer page) next to the volume, tuning, duration, & panning. Perhaps it already is there but I haven’t been able to locate it.

#3 Another option that I feel is very vital is to have a slider that would limit the dynamic range of the full mix (as is found with the volume control on the bottom right side of the drum page). By adding a similar slider next to that volume control & also on each strip to limit certain sections of the kit would really be helpful. At times I find various sounds being buried & going back & forth to the midi track in an attempt to get the right feel takes too long.

#4 – I have successfully removed the ride cymbal from the overhead cymbal mics (after receiving a response from one of the Toontrack Forum moderators, for which I am very grateful) & want to know if I can perform a similar operation with the side stick articulation files within the snare drum pool. Having separate flam’s, buzz rolls, & drags along with the side stick would really be beneficial. This would allow the user to adjust all of these within a separate (bounced) audio track that could be used to set volume levels correctly or provide emphasis when required.

Thanks guys!
I’m having a lot of fun with this plugin! It’s absolutely fabulous!

Cheers!

Tri-Net Media

Topic

[Juicy]

I think the panning is so naturally involved with the setup of all overheads and room mics that they are the way they are. You can chose your left and right cymbals but believe its best to not muck around too much with them. They did an amazing job with those overheads, best I’ve heard, i actually breathed a sigh of relief when first listened too them.

[Henrik]

@Tele’ O’Neil said:
I want to re-pan the cymbals individually (within the stereo cymbal mixer channel) but cannot find the panning control in the properties control area for each cymbal. Where can I reset the panning?

This isn’t possible, because of technical reasons (how the sound engine works). We discussed it a lot before releasing SD3, and decided to have it like it is now – you can pan the individual instruments if you first route them to their own mixer channels. It’s all a matter of where we put our effort – if we had done this different, lots of other features wouldn’t have made it into the software!

@Tele’ O’Neil said:
#1 – When I tried to find the panning control (couldn’t find this feature in the manual) where is this control? When I looked up each individual cymbal they are labeled as “Cymbal ID #”, (Eg. Cymbal 1, Cymbal 2, etc.)…

You do the panning in the mixer, because of similar reasons in the answer above.

@Tele’ O’Neil said:
… I think it would be helpful to have this identified on the actual right click (of the Graphic) so I know which one I’m adjusting rather than guessing & using the poke & find method. In addition to the Graphic perhaps the actual cymbal # (in the properties window) would light up brighter so I could see which one is being accessed.

When you select an instrument in the drums tab, the name of the position is in the Instrument selection (above the drum kit). Is this the instrument information you requested?

@Tele’ O’Neil said:
#2 … have the Sample Duration be available on the first (Drum View) page rather than on the (Mixer) page properties area. As a user I find I work there most of the time & having to click back & forth is a pain in the butt regardless of whether I can detach the mixer or not. It’s more sensible to have it there with the volume & tuning. Anything to do with the actual sample should be grouped together in one area.

I am not sure of what you mean with “Sample Duration” – is it the Time Offset or Level Envelope Releases Properties on the rights side of the mixer?
The reasoning behind of where you find controls is this: when you select a mixer channel and change properties – you change things for that channel. When you select an instrument and change properties for that, the sounds for that instrument is changed. If we would have had properties in the Drums Tab that only changed certain Mixer Channels we felt that it could possibly confuse users (in a software that is pretty complex to start with).

@Tele’ O’Neil said:
#3 Another option that I feel is very vital is to have a slider that would limit the dynamic range of the full mix (as is found with the volume control on the bottom right side of the drum page). By adding a similar slider next to that volume control & also on each strip to limit certain sections of the kit would really be helpful. At times I find various sounds being buried & going back & forth to the midi track in an attempt to get the right feel takes too long.

Do you mean a slider that would control a compressor or limiter on the output channel (master bus)?

@Tele’ O’Neil said:
#4 – I have successfully removed the ride cymbal from the overhead cymbal mics (after receiving a response from one of the Toontrack Forum moderators, for which I am very grateful) & want to know if I can perform a similar operation with the side stick articulation files within the snare drum pool. Having separate flam’s, buzz rolls, & drags along with the side stick would really be beneficial. This would allow the user to adjust all of these within a separate (bounced) audio track that could be used to set volume levels correctly or provide emphasis when required.

We have discussed the options of having each articulation re-routable (route the sidestick from the snare to its own mixer channel for example). However – the whole thing got so complex that we didn’t include that. We opted for the current implementation – where you can add the same snare again (as a new instrument), and route that to its own mixer channel(s), and use the side stick of that one.

Thanks for the feedback, and I hope this clarifies some things 🙂 Reply back here if you still have any questions!

Henrik Ekblom - User Experience Designer
Toontrack

[tokenterprises]

A work-around, if you need to pan Rides, Cymbals, or really any other instrument, is to create an additional instance of the SD3 plug-in on the need-to-be-panned instrument’s midi track, and remove that specific instrument from the primary SD3 plug-in on the Master midi track. Be sure the settings are exactly the same, except switch the outputs (L -> R, R -> L) if your instrument needs to be mirrored; i.e. placed on the opposite side. Within the mixer of the secondary SD3 plug-in, alter the panning additionally to tweak placement. If you only enable the actual instruments being utilized in each plug-in instance, the memory and CPU usage is not much different compared to one single instance.

This post explains nicely how to separate the Ride from the Master Mix; https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/ride-cymbal-request/
however, once you start utilizing multiple microphones, it becomes easier to just control the instrument in its own SD3 plug-in instance.

1

Thanked by: gunmetalgrey91

[Exci]

I assume this is still not possible? It’s quite frustrating finding a nice splash sound but being unable to place it remotely where my actual splash cymbal pad is.

1

Thanked by: wasitthat

[wasitthat]

I also would like to pan the cymbals as all the good ones on my track are all panned right. 🙁

[John]

Hi,

the option to right-click an Instrument and go to ‘More > Route Instrument Microphones…’ and then ‘Create New Channel’ for your Close (and Bleed for that matter) signal is still there but you for obvious reasons cannot pan within a sampled stereo field. E.g. panning an instrument in the ‘AMB Near’ microphone is not possible, since the instruments are sampled in their physical positions in the room.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Author]

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