What SD Lacks

[Nicholas DiFabbio]

I think there is a major flaw in the EZ/SD lines.
That being the fact that the more expensive product (SD) lacks key features from the less expensive one (EZ)
There are many (most?) who would like to have the sound quality and flexibility of SD with the programming capabilities of EZ not to mention the user interface.
Now the only solution is to program in EZ and trigger, manipulate and route in SD, cumbersome.
I think the solution is simple, put all the functions of EZ into SD. Then there will truly be an upper and lower choice; SD with everything and EZ with some key features but limited in others.
In other words what usually happens with upper and lower line products

Topic

[Juicy]

Tell us something new.

[Stephen Marshall]

Amen. Seriously though, if they add those features to Superior Drummer, I’ll still keep EZd2 and all my EZX for the midi.

[Nicholas DiFabbio]

Yes but the EZXs all work in SD

[Nicholas DiFabbio]

Thinking about how music really should be created; it involves interaction from the very beginning of the process among musicians. This so called ‘workflow’ of recording guitars etc, then deciding which drum beats to add to add to it, is counter productive to every musical creation process that I’ve ever been involved in. At east the search option in EZ at least allows you to establish the kick/snare feel for a song, and quickly search for a similar pattern that can be worked with at the very beginning of the song recording process. That this is not in SD shows a major weakness in it. The TT vid I just watched on how how to choose a feel for your song in SD is worthless and cumbersome. When you write a song, you can hear what the drum feel should be and you should be able to get to it fast, not blindly search for it. I have to say, every time I click on one of those tutorial videos, I’m disappointed a little more when hearing the drums. Sure it sounds great but I think we’ve forgotten what music is, and it isn’t searching through columns looking for a feel, then dropping them in a time line. No, it’s a lot more. And that’s where I lose it with all this. Get the drums as close to the beginning of the process as possible. make them as easily flexible as possible, and you’ll have something.

[Kip Count]

I’m am seriously waiting for a Superior Drummer 3.0 “take-my-money-now” moment.

I hate being torn between EZD2 and SD2. My intention on a new song, every time, is…

1.) Start with EZD2, choosing whatever EZX I find feels the best, switching them up as I go, build the basic pieces for the song in the song creator. Drag it in, tweak some stuff in my DAW.

2.) Then started laying down the rest of the band.

3.) Swap out EZD2 for SD2, and start by loading up the EZX I was working with, or perhaps trying an alternate SDX that translates well (Indie Folk to Indiependent is great for this).

The problem is, most times, I’m so content with how the drums are sounding in EZD2, I don’t bother switching to Superior. If I want to layer up the drum sounds, instead of using X-Drums, I’ll just duplicate the MIDI to a new track and put a different EZX on it and unload the kit pieces I don’t want in the 2nd instance. For example, I’ll load up a different kick and snare to layer with the kick and snare of the original EZX I was using.

I like the idea of using Superior 2 more than I actually like using it. Superior Drummer 3 with a better, clearer interface (my eyes aren’t getting any younger), and a songwriting tool like EZD, would be fantastic.

They like to market it as if Superior is for one type of person and EZD is for another type of person, but I think that’s flawed thinking. I’d say a good majority of us blur the lines between the “serious producer” niche of Superior and the songwriter niche of EZD2. We all want to have a creative tool, but when it’s mix time, we all want to put on our producer hat and make the song the best it can be.

Specifically, what I’d like to see in a future version of SD….

– Larger interface. It’s very busy, especially the mixer page. I don’t want them to remove anything, but it needs to be clearer and easier to see.
– Allow swapping of kit pieces between expansions right on the main drum layout area. EZD2 can do this. X-Drums are great, but sometimes I don’t want to add a drum, I want to replace one. X-drums are pretty clunky compared to the way EZD2 handles things for swapping kit pieces.
– Make mapping same-piece X-drums a default Join. Meaning, when I add an X-drum snare, don’t make me go in and map all the articulations, and tell it to join them. This should be the default behavior, or at least a toggle in the settings to make it the default behavior. Perhaps in the X-drum window, just have a mirror-mapping button so a snare will automatically get trigger on D1 and that sort of thing. If unchecked, it needs to be mapped manually like it is now.
– Make the X-drum mic page a little clearer. I have no real issues with the way it is now, but I remember the first time I looked at it, taking a bit to get my head around it. It’s ultimately pretty simple, but it could be clearer.
– Spectrum analysis of some sort on the EQ plugin. Maybe I’m just spoiled, but I’ve gotten very accustomed to (and like very much) the visual feedback I get in Fabfilter Pro-Q, Logic’s EQ, Studio One Pro EQ, etc. It really helps in confirming decisions and zeroing in on undesirable frequencies when you’re unsure where to look.
– Larger, Clearer Plugin interfaces for same reasons.
– Saturation and Reverb modules. I know you can route out to the DAW for this, but there is something really tidy and comforting about doing all my drum mixing right inside the drum plugin. I often intend to route out EZdrummer2, and then never do when things are sounding really good. I’ll just end up adding some overall Drum bus plugins on my DAW. If done, they’ll need to make sure that when not being used, it’s not adding to the CPU hit. I love the stability of SD2. I’m not willing to give that up for some fancy stuff.
– Add the same song creation and groove search tools from EZD2. There’s really no argument for why they can’t or shouldn’t do it. Make it collapsible so it’s out of the way if you don’t want to see it. The fact that Superior has the Groove tab available is so you can use those grooves to build a song, so the intention is the same as the original EZD1. EZD2 improved on that. The same should absolutely be done in SD3.
– Pretty up the drum layout. I know the nature of Superior doesn’t lend itself to the full on gorgeousness of the kit graphics in EZD, but it’s a long leap from the aesthetic feel between SD and EZD. It might just be psychological (and perhaps a bit silly) but I love working with EZD because of the look. These little aesthetic things matter, and I swear that it influences my decisions, if only in little ways. You seriously have to hand it to the Toontrack graphics team for those EZX interfaces. They are absolutely killer, and I dare say functional, because of the vibe they impart on the whole experience.

Mac Mini M1 | Studio One 6 | PreSonus 68c | EZD3

[Nicholas DiFabbio]

Great post skiltrip!
What you’re experiencing is a well explained facet of my previous post re; making music.
As you build your song your ears have gotten used to the original EZ drum sound. Your playing has been affected by them, they have inspired instrument choices and the musical parts you add. When you reach the end, the tracks are blended and affected by each other. At this point 24 bit doesn’t matter, 16 individual outputs don’t matter, SDX doesn’t matter. Your creative process has already formed the sound of the recording. As you say, this is why it is so important that those initial steps be available in SD, then the true power of the features of SD can come to the fore. There’s an old adage from tape days called ‘chasing the demo’. So many great records are the demo because they couldn’t recreate the feel and sound of the original blend. This is your EZ vs SD experience. Whatever instruments we create on from the start is what we like to hear in the end. This idea of ‘replacing’ drums is counter intuitive and not musical, IMHO!

[Aurotonal]

Great point to make difab4 and probably defines what a lot of SD users are experiencing, hence quite a bit of resentment given they are often the early adopters who are so important to the making or breaking of a software company. Those features could and should have been added to SD long ago and it’s purely a gouge decision. I can understand this as capitalism is our current disease, but it really sucks balls and I’ve lost some respect for the company. No skin for them I know!

[John]

Please don’t forget that Superior 2 was released more than 6 years before EZdrummer 2, which is an eon in software development. It is simply not fair to assume it’s just a question of wanting or not wanting to add EZdrummer 2 features and functions to Superior 2. It would make much more sense to put that effort and resources into developing something even newer and even better, based on feedback the user community leaves in Requests & Feedback, don’t you think?

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Nicholas DiFabbio]

It must have taken a fair amount of time to develop the EZ 2 interface. Does it make sense that during that time it occurred to no one that this beautiful, user friendly song creating tool was not included in the upper tier product? I think it did occur to someone but for some inexplicable reason the idea was vetoed. The logical EZ2 rollout should have included an SD 2 with same new features, while of course still including the rest of the exclusive things that SD does. Again, really? To have newly created ‘essential’ features left off the ‘better’ product just doesn’t make sense.

[Scott]

Perhaps the song writing features were too complex and would have required a total rewrite of the S2 code so Toontrack decided not to update S2. I don’t know though. I don’t presume to guess why Toontrack hasn’t included the Song Track, et al. I suspect there was a good reason.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Scott Eshleman]

Understandably, no one at Toontrack can comment, and none of us here on the forum can accurately speculate
what may or may not be in the works in Product Development. There’s not a company that I know of, not Apple, not Microsoft,
not Ford, Fiat or Toyota that will comment on new products or updates to products until their Marketing Department sets the wheels in motion.

And don’t forget that Toontrack has been releasing new other products on a fairly regular schedule, too.

Perhaps the additional features we all love and enjoy in SuperiorDrummer2 DO require a comprehensive rewrite
(as Scott has suggested) to include the songwriting functions, Tap2Find, and MIDI Search that we are enjoying in EZDrummer2.
Perhaps such recoding and/or product redesign to include ALL OF THE ABOVE FEATURES (maybe more) takes a lot more time & testing than any of us can imagine.

[Nicholas DiFabbio]

Not completely understanding the apologists.
Writing code and recording drums is what TT does all day everyday yes?
The six year time span from the the last SD2 IS an eon, that’s part of my point.
I do, unfortunately have the feeling that crossgrade $ are involved in the products being so different.
Maybe SD 3 in, I would hope a very timely manner, will end the discussion.

[Scott]

“Writing code and recording drums is what TT does all day everyday yes?”

Plus developing, recording keyboards, and releasing Ezkeys and libraries as well as EZmix and expansion packs.

Just offering some possible reasoning for things. Not intending to argue with anyone.

I’ll leave this discussion now. Let the speculators continue.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Nicholas DiFabbio]

It’s all cool Scott.
Much more important things to think about than fake drums.
They’ll sort it out eventually, and we’ll have fun speculating!
Cheers!

[Manos_4]

Hello people,

I wanted to clear something out… I went to a friend, to his home studio and he is using both EZD2 and SD2… (While I use… Mmm other VST Drum products… I don’t know if I’m aloud to mention) anyway, and I found something which was really bad for a Drums VSTi like SD2. As SD2 can read libraries from EZDrummer Line you can’t build your own Drum Set from various (EZDrummer Line) products while with EZD2 you can!!

At first I was thinking he just didn’t find the way to do this with SD2 (messing with him with various type of words and phrases like (you are ignorant and you don’t know sh..), I was convinced that a product like this wouldn’t lock you down using drum parts from one product at a time. When, I finally understood that you couldn’t do that in SD2, I was greatly disappointed.

[Author]

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