Upgrade cost for SD3

[ryanduncan28]

Does anyone else feel a bit cheated over the $200 upgrade price or is it just me? As someone who purchased SD2 a couple years ago and then had to purchase EZ Drummer 2 because of the features in workflow and organizing grooves and building songs. Those features never were offered for us SD2 owners. SD2 was a flagship program and yet I had to buy a brand new copy of EZD2 in order to do what I wanted. There was no discount for me. Many people were in my same situation. Many people complained. It seems that they finally listened with SD3. They included some of the features we asked for but $200? Really? $200? That just feels like a slap in face. As someone that owns SD2, EZD2, EZKeys, and numerous expansions and packs, I feel seriously disappointed. I don’t normally take the time to write things like this, but I am today. Maybe it’s just me. Maybe I’m just complaining here. Sorry for the rant.

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Thanked by: Cliftonite187

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[James Clay]

I also own SD2/EZ2 a lot of EZx and SDx expansions. Let’s remember that SD3 is massive, really massive. And SD2 was never presented as having the same song building and midi features as EZ2. So, don’t feel disappointed. But, as in the other thread, I hope TT consider giving SD2/EZ2 owners an extra incentive to get SD3.

Love TT, love the online account system, love the EZx and SDx approach, love the look of SD3… hope the launch goes well. Maybe a cinematic perc SDx one day!

[Yaron Feinberg]

Or at least allow upgrade path just for the sw itself (without new kits) for a fair price

[Joseph Teresi]

I agree. There also needs to be an upgrade path for those of us that own 2 or more of the following…

EZ Drummer 2
Superior Drummer 2
Drumtracker

I have been as loyal as it gets. I was one of Toontracks FIRST EVER customers! I originally purchased Drumkit from hell before the times of EZ Drummer! As a matter of fact, my serial Number for it is very VERY LOW! So as someone who has supported Toontrack from its very beginning …and who owns almost ALL the products that Toontracks has to offer, I believe that $200 is very steep and a bit greedy.

[Adrian Dawson]

I too own SD2, EZD2 and a whole host of SDXs, EZXs, along with EZKeys and every EZKeys expansion and midi pack, yet I do not feel cheated and I think the word ‘greedy’ is a bit harsh.

There is AN upgrade path for me, and for that I am grateful, but I would happily buy a brand new piece of software with all of SD3s features for, say, $300 – yet I can now get one for 2/3 of that. And no, not all of the features are useful to me (I will probably never use 11.1 or Tracker). SD3 is an amazing piece of software, from what I can see so far, with a LOT of time and effort – not just into the recording – but into the layout, the presentation, the extra stacking features, the enhanced tracking, the enhanced everything, the (FREE) upgrades to every EZX and SDX that needs new graphics etc. No charge for those!

If Toontrack are successful and get lots of ‘loyal’ customers – and then every ‘loyal’ customer gets SD3/4/5/6 for next to nothing moving forward – then Toontrack are not profitable and all of this ends pretty soon. To me, loyalty is not about buying early, or first, and then expecting every version down the line to come to me for next to nothing, or for what I decide I want to pay. Loyalty, to me, is paying a FAIR price for a great product and supporting the company through worthwhile purchases not expecting really cheap updates forever because I got in there first. Apple don’t give me any discount AT ALL on my iPhone every couple of years (I always miss a step) because I was first in line on the day they launched the original model, or because I have five Macs, two iPads and an AppleTV and lots of their paid software, so why should Toontrack? Yet they do.

And, as ever, this is a market place. If there is a better piece of software out there for less than $200 that does everything you want it to do, then go and buy that instead. No-one is forcing you to buy anything. Companies have to make money and companies that work hard on quality should be rewarded fairly. I dislike the race to the bottom, price-wise. All it means is less money for talented people to re-invest in making things even greater. Of course I would take a greater discount, if Toontrack offered me one for all I own of theirs, but I’m actually pretty happy with the one I am getting. I want Toontrack to make enough money to make SD4 even better and so me, this is NOT greed. Far from it.

[ryanduncan28]

I guess my biggest hang up is that I bought SD2 before EZD2 came out. I love the program as TT does some quality stuff. The workflow for building grooves in SD2 was time consuming and tedious. EZD2 fixed that so I bought it. But there was no upgrade pricing for going in that direction. Only if you owned EZD2 and you wanted SD2 was there a discount. Therefore, I bought it at full price. That rubbed me the wrong way. Now, they have all of my needs in one program but it’s costly. Thing is, I don’t care about 11 microphones at once. I don’t want a better mixer and a bunch of classic effects. I would rather use my UAD plugins anyway. I want good quality raw drum sounds with a usable choice of microphones and bleeds AND the ability to write in a drum track like EZD2 in the same program. I don’t care about a producer preset where the producer was able to make a great natural sounding kit and make it sound like a beat boxing robot from outer space. Plus, I don’t want to pay a hefty price over what I’ve already invested in TT software. That’s all. Is that unreasonable? Maybe it is. I don’t know. Just my two cents.

[Adrian Dawson]

So why not just use EZD for your grooves, turn on Midi Out and have it trigger SD2. Done. TT have already given you all you need. Buying SD3 would only give you things you already have plus things you don’t actually need so it’s basically a non-starter for you anyway. The only thing you are currently missing, and will continue to miss, is ‘having it all in one program’ but asking for a much lower price because you alone only want only one small feature is a big of an ask, no…? At least they are offering you a discount for owning SD2 (…like, 50%!!!) but that’s not enough..?

I agree that a discount for you buying EZD2 back in the day, as an owner of SD2, would have been a good move on TT’s behalf, but I really do not think SD3 is for you. It’s clearly a bigger program that you are looking for and yet, if it wasn’t, people would simply be complaining that there were not enough new features.

[ryanduncan28]

?
Wow. Thank you for your perspective. Your answer was quite…superior.

I will try your suggestion about midi.

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Thanked by: Sixstringeek

[Yaron Feinberg]

Why do I want to upgrade to sd3 if I don’t want the new sounds?
Because Ezd2 won’t open the sdx libraries that I want (roots for example) and I want these great features of song creator, tap to find and mostly create great loops by change style (more hits on the snare/ ride) this is amazing feature that I love in Ezdrummer 2 and really waited to be part of the SD sw as well.
In short: The great Sdx libraries won’t open in ezdrummer 2. Thats why the upgrade is fgreat or me omitting all the new kits and sounds

[Yaron Feinberg]

Why do I want to upgrade to sd3 if I don’t want the new sounds?
Because Ezd2 won’t open the sdx libraries that I want (roots for example) and I want these great features of song creator, tap to find and mostly create great loops by change style (more hits on the snare/ ride) this is amazing feature that I love in Ezdrummer 2 and really waited to be part of the SD sw as well.
In short: The great Sdx libraries won’t open in ezdrummer 2. Thats why the upgrade is fgreat or me omitting all the new kits and sounds

[olliepudge]

I own SD2 and EZ Drummer 2. I’m happy to pay the $200 and support these guys. It’s not that much money and it looks like a lot of work went into this. That’s my opinion anyway.

[Scott]

@Jerome_F said:
Why do I want to upgrade to sd3 if I don’t want the new sounds?
Because Ezd2 won’t open the sdx libraries that I want (roots for example) and I want these great features of song creator, tap to find and mostly create great loops by change style (more hits on the snare/ ride) this is amazing feature that I love in Ezdrummer 2 and really waited to be part of the SD sw as well.
In short: The great Sdx libraries won’t open in ezdrummer 2. Thats why the upgrade is fgreat or me omitting all the new kits and sounds  

AdeyMagus just posted this above:

‘So why not just use EZD for your grooves, turn on Midi Out and have it trigger SD2. Done. TT have already given you all you need. Buying SD3 would only give you things you already have plus things you don’t actually need so it’s basically a non-starter for you anyway. The only thing you are currently missing, and will continue to miss, is ‘having it all in one program’

Seem like a logical solution to your problem. Use the song creator functions in EZD2 with the S2 libraries you have.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[ryanduncan28]

For the record, I would have been more happy to pay the $200 had I not had to purchase EZ2 in the past. That’s hindsight though. I think there are some new features that I would use. I like the new drum samples. I don’t know why anyone would need 11 mics but I would certainly try a few of those at a time. I have a Roland kit that might benefit from the kit specific mapping. I would like the ability to work in one program, etc. It may be worth checking out again in the future. Maybe the upgrade cost will come down to $100. In which case, I would be all too happy. Cheers.

[Adrian Dawson]

I too have a Roland Kit. I’m not sure what module you have (mine is a TD-20) but I have some of the 100 kits set up with different midi mappings, purely for playing DAW kits. The module handles the re-routing for me, so you could always try that. Also, I use Logic Pro X and I have an environment set up that can also re-route midi notes coming in, and perhaps your software does too..? With one or both of these solutions, each of which would take a short while to set up (but would only need doing once), you may be covered on your mapping needs, again negating the need to upgrade to SD3 just for that feature.

[Joseph Teresi]

@AdeyMagus said:
I too own SD2, EZD2 and a whole host of SDXs, EZXs, along with EZKeys and every EZKeys expansion and midi pack, yet I do not feel cheated and I think the word ‘greedy’ is a bit harsh.

There is AN upgrade path for me, and for that I am grateful, but I would happily buy a brand new piece of software with all of SD3s features for, say, $300 – yet I can now get one for 2/3 of that. And no, not all of the features are useful to me (I will probably never use 11.1 or Tracker). SD3 is an amazing piece of software, from what I can see so far, with a LOT of time and effort – not just into the recording – but into the layout, the presentation, the extra stacking features, the enhanced tracking, the enhanced everything, the (FREE) upgrades to every EZX and SDX that needs new graphics etc. No charge for those!

If Toontrack are successful and get lots of ‘loyal’ customers – and then every ‘loyal’ customer gets SD3/4/5/6 for next to nothing moving forward – then Toontrack are not profitable and all of this ends pretty soon. To me, loyalty is not about buying early, or first, and then expecting every version down the line to come to me for next to nothing, or for what I decide I want to pay. Loyalty, to me, is paying a FAIR price for a great product and supporting the company through worthwhile purchases not expecting really cheap updates forever because I got in there first. Apple don’t give me any discount AT ALL on my iPhone every couple of years (I always miss a step) because I was first in line on the day they launched the original model, or because I have five Macs, two iPads and an AppleTV and lots of their paid software, so why should Toontrack? Yet they do.

And, as ever, this is a market place. If there is a better piece of software out there for less than $200 that does everything you want it to do, then go and buy that instead. No-one is forcing you to buy anything. Companies have to make money and companies that work hard on quality should be rewarded fairly. I dislike the race to the bottom, price-wise. All it means is less money for talented people to re-invest in making things even greater. Of course I would take a greater discount, if Toontrack offered me one for all I own of theirs, but I’m actually pretty happy with the one I am getting. I want Toontrack to make enough money to make SD4 even better and so me, this is NOT greed. Far from it.  

I hear what you are saying and I agree a lot with what you are saying ….but, respectfully …..you missed my point 🙂

[ryanduncan28]

I’ve got a TD-25 kv kit through Logic Pro X as well. I’ve semi-successfully gotten it to behave properly with SD2. Most hits are great. The hi-hat isn’t quite right but it’s close. My kit uses an actual stand. It’s usable but finicky because the triggered cc change between open and closed is complicated to me. I’ve tried the preset curves and gotten close. The transition between rimshot and side stick also require adjustment. Finally, on some drum kits like the Prog Foundry ones, I can’t do proper swells on cymbals or get the correct sound to play when hitting the crash bows with the stick tip vs the edge with the stick body. Sorry, I don’t know the proper term for using the stick body as opposed to tip. Of course, some kits have those hits available. I haven’t truly found a kit that has every sample available I want which is why I may like to try the new version. I think a lot of this could be solved if I could obtain a demo and evaluate for myself if the extra money is worth it to me.

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Thanked by: Ben_4

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