TD4KX2 – Hihat Handling Issues in SD2

[omonoiatis9]

Hi. I’ve recently got a TD4kx2 roland electronic drum kit and hooked it right onto SD2 through Nuendo 3. Everything works lovely, except for one annoying issue I was hoping someone could help me with.

The hihat.
The hihat responds very strangely when using it with SD2, whereas when playing through the TD4 module it’s fine and can be used with no problems.

I read somewhere that as the pedal moves, midi information constantly flows to SD2, and that midi information does things such as..

Crossfade the closed hihat sound into the open hihat sound if you hit the hihat and lift the pedal shortly afterwards.

Or the opposite. Crossfade an open hihat sound into a hihat that’s closing, as you press the pedal down. This works very well and sounds nice

Here’s the issue: Crossfading from closed hits to open pedal sounds doesn’t work as well. When lifting your foot off the pedal while playing you can often distinguish layers of hihat sounds being intertwined and this results in very messy hihat sounds.

I can’t be the only one that has come across and noticed this, as this was happening straight out of the box. And I know that the issue is how the SD2 handles the midi signals the pedal sends, as the hihat sounds natural when playing through the module. Is this adjustable/fixable?

Topic

[John]

Hi,

you’re supposed to use the ‘E-drums’ MIDI Preset, at least as a starting point. Also make sure you have the latest plugin version installed.
And please contact support via the Support Portal providing your product serial to get you proper access to the registered users area.

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[omonoiatis9]

I am using the E-drums MIDI preset and I’ve the latest version. What else can I do?

[John]

Please post in the Superior 2 Help Section:
http://www.toontrack.com/forum/tt.aspx?forumid=19

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Nathan]

I didn’t find the continuation of this post, so I’m resurrecting this if no-one minds…

I’ve just acquired a TD-4 kit, and I’m also having weird issues with the Hi-Hat pedal. I set it on the module so the hat hits map to Hats trig and edge trig on SD2, but the foot pedal and hats then gave me floor tom and snare notes. Pedal position seems normal on CC4.

I think this is similar to omonoiatis9’s problems -basically if you set the open HH bow or edge numbers, the Foot Close MIDI note and the HH bow and edge closed notes are automatically set.

From the TD4 manual:

• Selecting HH will specify the HH BOW/EDGE OPEN note number.
• The HH BOW/EDGE CLOSE and HH FOOT CLOSE note numbers will be as follows.
• HH BOW CLOSE: HH BOW OPEN note number minus 4
• HH EDGE CLOSE: HH EDGE OPEN note number minus 4
• HH FOOT CLOSE: HH BOW OPEN note number minus 2

You cannot set them independently. This rather screws-up any hope of programming the module so that it plays nicely with the default SD2 MIDI mapping -you’ll have to play with the mapping in SD2 to be able to use it, for all of your libraries, and then your MIDI files will be incompatible with collaborators’ SD2 setups.

In short, the TD-4 module is a toy, not fully mappable.

Does anybody know how far up the Roland tree I have to go to get a reasonable module please? -I like the mesh heads, but the module is a bit of a joke. Not worried about sounds, just MIDI out for SD2. I’m a bit new to e-kits and their strengths and weaknesses, so any help will be greatfully received.

Thank you.

>

SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[Juicy]

I am not sure mine seems to be working of the bat , it has been a few years since i did any tinkering in the module …..
But
Can you do a factory reset first ?
I only say this because i don’t get any weirdness at all.
I am in SD2 and not using E Drum preset

[Juicy]

The best value for money with independent note numbers for hats is TD9 it warns you too if you are attempting to take a assigned midi number which maybe a good thing that the td4 tries to avoid.
You also get Dual Zones for toms and one more Dual Cymbal.

[Nathan]

Thank you.

It seems to be set in stone (firmware) juicy, there is only provision to set notes for the open hits, and then the closed hits and pedal chicks are set automatically from those.

It looks like you can set all five parameters independendly on your TD9, but I can only set the two on the TD4 and the other three are “derived” from them.

I’ll look at finding a 2nd-hand TD9 unit to put with this kit. I presume that it will happily take signals from these mesh heads (PDX6/ 8)?

Also, looking at the pic above, is “X Stick” created from a detection of snare rim and head hits? How might that differ from a rim-shot, how does it work?

>

SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[John]

Hi,

juicy’s picture tells that his setup will play nicely with the Superior 2 E-drums MIDI Preset. It also tells us that if you (planetnine) set the Open Bow to 46 and Open Edge to 26, it will work as expected for you as well.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Juicy]

The outcome is the same for both machines, so plz P9 don’t ditch your TD4 for that reason alone.
Thanks to John for the confirm.

One good thing to do is change your midi numbers on cym 1 crash so you get cym 1 & 2 on SD2 from a bow or Edge shot (these are independent midi numbers) easily done and since the TD4 only has one crash to me it is a no brainer for programming.
In pad settings turn CY2 into Ride/Bell and using a 3 Zone will be just like the big boys too.There is a couple of other options but thats about all she wrote.

[Nathan]

It also tells us that if you (planetnine) set the Open Bow to 46 and Open Edge to 26, it will work as expected for you as well.

I’ll do this for the time being, thanks John.

One good thing to do is change your midi numbers on cym 1 crash so you get cym 1 & 2 on SD2 from a bow or Edge shot (these are independent midi numbers) easily done and since the TD4 only has one crash to me it is a no brainer for programming.

I’ll explore this too Juicy, thanks for your help here -I take it you use the “e-drums” MIDI setting in SD2 rather than program your TD9 to the default Superior mapping?

In pad settings turn CY2 into Ride/Bell and using a 3 Zone will be just like the big boys too.There is a couple of other options but thats about all she wrote.

I didn’t quite follow this, sorry J. I have a “Crash-2” input on the TD4, but no 2nd crash cymbal pad to plug into it as yet.

I just wanted a module I could set up in MIDI so I didn’t have to touch the Superior mapping, whichever kit I chose to use. The pedal seems ok with the default linear transfer function, so with settable MIDI I thought I was on my way to achieving this until the snare and tom triggers started appearing.

Although I’ve used it before, I can’t afford the TD-30 and to be honest I don’t need it as I don’t want it for its internal sounds. I was trying to find the affordable alternative that is still MIDI configurable, but it looks like I just aimed too low

I wanted to sling down grooves and sections using the e-kit, and then browse kits and instruments without having to remap Superior each time. Am I using faulty reasoning here? Do I understand that the people with TD-30s and SD2 still use the “e-drum” MIDI mapping?

Thanks for your help guys…

>

SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[John]

quote:

It also tells us that if you (planetnine) set the Open Bow to 46 and Open Edge to 26, it will work as expected for you as well.

I’ll do this for the time being, thanks John.

I.e. with the ‘E-drums’ MIDI Preset. Just to clarify, it will sound funky if you simply use the plugin Default startup mapping. Mostly because this will trigger separate articulations and not the hatsTrig/hatsTipTrig articulations and so the Transmuting will not work as intended with the CC4 foot control.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Nathan]

ORIGINAL: John

quote:

It also tells us that if you (planetnine) set the Open Bow to 46 and Open Edge to 26, it will work as expected for you as well.

I’ll do this for the time being, thanks John.

I.e. with the ‘E-drums’ MIDI Preset. Just to clarify, it will sound funky if you simply use the plugin Default startup mapping. Mostly because this will trigger separate articulations and not the hatsTrig/hatsTipTrig articulations and so the Transmuting will not work as intended with the CC4 foot control.

BR,
John

Yes, I’d got that far, and could tell it was triggering discrete articulations, John.

I was getting good, clean, smooth CC4 values from the pedal travel and was in the process of setting the bow and edge hits to hats trig MIDI numbers when the foot pedal started giving me snare hits on “chick” and closed hits giving me toms.

Reading the manual then revealed to me that open and closed hits and the pedal close switch were tied together in fixed note separations. I know I can set a module to operate the default SD2 mapping if I can set these notes (done it with a TD-30). Unfortunately I can’t with the TD-4. I’ll have to use the “e-drums” SD2 MIDI mapping preset for now and tweak, until I can locate a TD-9.

Many thanks for your help John.

>

SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[Juicy]

I didn’t quite follow this, sorry J. I have a “Crash-2” input on the TD4, but no 2nd crash cymbal pad to plug into it as yet.

Thats correct , sorry i skimmed over that a bit too much,
On the module you can switch that “Crash two” plug to giving an extra articulation on a 3 zone ride if you purchased one or…
simply purchase a 2nd crash pad, plug it in and leave at default on the module.

[Nathan]

Thanks Juicy, I follow now.

Do you leave your TD-9 at factory MIDI settings and use SD2 with the “e-drum” MIDI preset or do you tailor the module to suit your SD2 setup? It just seems more complicated and more work to have to change the SDX’ mappings (even if it is with a preset) as you use them, than the e-drum modules MIDI settings just the once.

Am I making sense here? I feel like people are wondering what I’m going on about

>

SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[Juicy]

I always tailor modules to play well with SD2.
I think if your not using the Roland output just forget all to do with rules and everything except making it purr with SD2 as soon as you turn them on .
I know you are a studio person and we need that instant connection without extra steps/loading times so if the module remembers settings by default we take advantage of it.

[Author]

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