Superior Drummer 3 and Awful Latency

[MarcoRoth]

OK, I’m a new user…..but I have just mapped my 2Box drum-It 3 over and a few problems.

I am used to playing my kit via the brilliant Focusrite 18i20 but now want more choice so opted for SD3

I have problems with sounds being so quiet, even though the equaliser sliders are well up.

So here’s my set-up…..see if this is where I am going wrong…..

2Box drum-It 3 MIDI Out to Focusrite 18i20.

2Box Drum-It 3 USB out to Laptop

Focusrite 18i20 USB Out to Laptop

The MIDI within SD3 is mapped from my Drum-It 3

The output from SD3 is routed to my Focusrite 18i20

Focusrite 18i20 output to monitors

 

When I play from my electronic drums WITHOUT using SD3, the sound system is amazing and zero latency.

But when I put it through SD3, it’s like a ‘re-trigger’ split-second delay – and so annoying.

Is there something I am doing wrong – either in my connections or configuration – or both?

I have SD3 on my main C drive on my laptop and all the big sound packs are on the D drive (1TB in size).

Work Hard, Play Harder

Topic

[Brad]

In SD3, settings > Audio Midi what is the buffer size?

Mac Studio M1 Max, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 12.x/13.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Studio One Pro (always up to date)
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)

[MarcoRoth]

I have tried all sorts of Buffer sizes – none of them have any effect.

SD3 is anything BUT plug & play.  I bring in my 2Box Drum-It 3 and even the hi-hat cymbal is terrible.  So much so that it works opposite way round – closed when it’s open, open when its closed.  So whatever this mapping is for 2Box Drum-It 3, it is not working.  And you would think two pieces of hardware both made in Sweden, should be most compatible of all !!!

But worst of all is this latency.  Make no mistake, playing from my 2Box via Focusrite 18i20 to my power monitors is magical sound – with zero latency.  I would say the latency from SD3 via Focusrite 18i20 is approximately o.2 seconds.

Right now I am left with 349 Euro’s of pretty-much redundant software.

 

Work Hard, Play Harder

• This post was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by MarcoRoth.

[John]

Hi,

 

I am not sure I follow your setup description correctly but I would use the 2Box DrumIt USB as the MIDI Input Device and the Focusrite as the Audio Output Device in SD3 Audio/MIDI Settings. IIRC, the Focusrite Audio Device should be able to have really low Buffer Settings like 32 or 64.

Next, I would activate and select the 2Box DrumIt Three Preset on the MIDI In/E-drums page.

 

BR,

John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

1

Thanked by: Don Watters

[MarcoRoth]

Hi John!

How do I use the USB as the MIDI input device to the Laptop?  Just send MIDI with a USB cable??

So if I read this correct, the routing/cabling is as folllows:

INPUT:  2Box Drum-It 3 (USB) Laptop/SD3

 

OUTPUT:  Laptop / SD3 (USB) to Focusrite 18i20 – and output to my monitors

 

But I don’t see a need for any MIDI cable in your description?

 

I must admit, from a personal point of view, I would like to have seen Toontrack include a ‘Common Set-Ups’ section in their manual.

 

 

Work Hard, Play Harder

[Mark King]

So from what I gather the usb connection carries midi as it does from my Roland td30. This part should be very low latency and not worth taking into consideration. In your midi devices you should see this as an option? Does the 2box need a driver? The latency out is down to your audio interface and not SD3. As mentioned you need to adjust the buffers down to as low as they will go without your computer glitching. When you have this working then select as mentioned above the settings for 2box in the edrum editor.

It’s not that simple but all plugins rely on you having a sound knowledge of the hardware involved as well as midi and audio.

SD3 with older sdx,s plus Rooms of Hansa and Death & Darkness. Cubase and wavelab current versions. Roland TD50x using all trigger inputs for triggering SD3 only. Windows 11 computer. Various keyboards and outboard gear as well as VST instruments. Acoustic drums: Yamaha 9000 natural wood and Pearl masters. Various snare drums. RME BabyFace Pro FS and Adam A7X monitors

• This post was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by Mark King.

[John]

Hmmm, I incorrectly assumed that the 2Box USB connection worked as other manufacturers’ modules with USB connection, i.e. that you do not need an additional MIDI interface but only use the USB cable for the MIDI Input to the computer.

It seems the 2Box USB is only for transferring data, e.g. sounds.

So, then I would connect the MIDI Out from the 2Box module to the MIDI In (as I think you already did) of the Focusrite and select that as both the MIDI Device and the Audio Device in SD3.

There is no need for the USB connection from the 2Box module to the computer with regards to SD3.

There is also a ‘LOCAL ON/OFF’ setting in the 2Box module that can be set to ‘OFF’ when using SD3 for the sounds. It should improve latency somewhat but the buffer size under Audio/MIDI Settings is the most crucial.

 

BR,

John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[MarcoRoth]

Thanks, John!

The only reason the 2Box is connected to the Laptop is for editing kits etc.  Obviously this was before SD3 has been installed!!!

I am away from home with my business/day-job during the week so when I get home on Thursday night, I will pull-out the USB from the 2Box to the Laptop.

Other than that, I think I have everything connected and configured as you describe.  I will take pics from on-screen configuration settings, too.   Then  post here.

 

Moreover, anyone know why the hi-hat works opposite way round in SD3?  The set-up works so well from hi-hat to 2Box, but somehow, SD3 ‘inverts’ my pedal!  (open when shut and shut when open!).

 

I guarantee all my problems are something simple.  I was tearing my hair out all last weekend with it – and so were my children(!) – as Dad was hogging the bandwidth 24/7 downloading SD3

Work Hard, Play Harder

[John]

MarcoRoth wrote:

Moreover, anyone know why the hi-hat works opposite way round in SD3? The set-up works so well from hi-hat to 2Box, but somehow, SD3 ‘inverts’ my pedal! (open when shut and shut when open!).

After reading the Drumit Three Module Manual, it seems you can set type, direction and momentary/continuously for the pedal :

PED Set here the controller format for the foot controller of the hihat. You can choose between CC1 (modulation wheel) and CC4 (pedal control). For each controller format there are 4 different modes.

▼: value 0 for the open and value 127 for the closed hihat

▼!: In difference to ▼ the controller data is sent continuously and not just once with theNOTE-ON command.

▲: value 0 with closed and value 127 with open hihat

▲!: In comparison to ▲ the controller data is sent continuously and not just once withthe NOTE-ON command.

So, you make sure these settings are CC4 and ▼!

I hope this helps,

John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Jorg]

You haven’t mentioned which pads are you using with the 2box drumit 3? I use it with Roland and alesis pads and it Plays ok, not perfect but ok by selecting the drumit 3 midi preset. Only Thing missing now is the cymbal choke, how do they work again? 2box sends note on not off.

[MarcoRoth]

I use the Pearl ePro Tru-Trac heads.  So much more realistic than the mesh stuff.  Perfect drum roll on the snare!

Work Hard, Play Harder

[MarcoRoth]

Hi John (and others on here!)

OK, I am home now – for more drumm set-up headaches!

Attached is a diagram of my set up and the type of cables used to link everything up.

On the setup, I have Scarlett Focusrite 18i20 for IN and OUT.  But what about the other settings – Direct, Windows Audio, etc.?

I have tried the buffer on 64, still no use – still latency approx 1/4 of a second after each drum pad hit

Work Hard, Play Harder

1

Thanked by: Mark Moore

[MarcoRoth]

Update!

Seems like the best Audio Device is ASIO (which showed my Focusrite beside it!).  I had this on Windows Audio.

(see attached images)

Think I might just be getting there…..!

Work Hard, Play Harder

[Henrik Ekblom]

MarcoRoth wrote:

Update!
Seems like the best Audio Device is ASIO (which showed my Focusrite beside it!). I had this on Windows Audio.

Yeah, ASIO is a must. Windows drivers will add ish 2 days of latency

Henrik Ekblom - User Experience Designer
Toontrack

[MarcoRoth]

Still struggling with latency, although it has reduced somewhat, it is still there.

Is it a problem where my kits are placed?  SD3 is on my main operating C drive, but what if my saved kits are on the D (hard) drive (1TB)?

My laptop does NOTHING ELSE but operate Toontrack SD3 and Pro-Tools 11 (but don’t actually have Pro-Tools open and/or running at the moment).

Work Hard, Play Harder

[Brad]

Moving to another drive won’t improve latency, if it is a faster drive than your system drive maybe loading time. SD3, like most Toontrack instruments, load samples into RAM. While we”re on the subject, how much RAM does the host/computer/laptop have installed?

Mac Studio M1 Max, RAM 64 GB, 1TB Drive, OSX 12.x/13.x and Windows 10 (VM)
DAW: Studio One Pro (always up to date)
DTX Express III (Extreme triggers), Nektar LX88
OWC Thunderbay Mini (4 X 1TB Sata SSD), Express 4M2 (4 X 2TB M.2 SSD), Envoy Express (1TB M.2 SSD)
Presonus Quantum, Faderport & Faderport 8
Black Lion Sparrow Mk2 A/D, FMR-RNP-RNC, MIDI Xpress 128, BM5A, KRK VXT4, Equator D5
2020 Macbook Pro 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD Audio(mobile rig)

[Author]

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