Superior 3 Dedicated DSP Hardware Platform

[MouseClickDrummer]

Hello,  as a result of 1) a preference for many people including myself for instruments used in music such as guitar amp modeling or keyboard synths to be dedicated hardware machines rather than being virtual instruments running on computers, 2) the fact that I have found a drummer who does not mind playing an electronic kit (but who also shares my dislike for making use of laptops or their accompanying firewire drives in live situations or stages, and the preference to keep them at home, in the coffee shop, bus, etc – basically anywhere except for industrial grade settings, and 3) since bands these days are virtual orchestras – the fact that it is too demanding on technology to be forcing computers to do whey too much multi-tasking and just too high of a risk to be running insanely multi-tracked high cost sessions on fully native, non hardware-assisted rigs (imagine if a band wanted to track and monitor themselves with “the works” applied – in addition to expecting the computer to be taking control of the DAW functions –  I therefore have an important request for TT.

I think that the next Superior – version 3 should run on dedicated DSP hardware.  This will also result in exponentially more profits for TT because the interface and its content would basically be immune from piracy.  (This is also why Fractal Audio will never be releasing a plug-in version of the axe FX guitar platform except for maybe a hardware-card based one).

But also, bands these days are virtual orchestras in their essence – with upwards of 80 or more tracks. So even on the most advanced of computers running DAWs that are fully native, still – the idea of accomplishing all this with a fully native-run rig is enough to give you nightmares. And with dedicated DSP modules in general – such as Pro Tools HD – there is none of this “start to play, then hell freezes over at that extreme heavy processing section” that plagues fully native rigs.

And who in the world would want to risk running an ultra intense orchestral or mix session with a non-hardware assisted setup when so many things can go wrong?  It happens all the time. 

And also because many musicians and guitar players, bands, etc… myself included will never ever consider taking any laptop or my firewire drive with my TT packs to a gig.  There is just something that will always remain untrustworthy about computers used in this manner (and you all know its at least in your subconscious) and the unspoken rule will always remain to simply not trust them for this kind of live usage.  There are many concievable lists of reasons I can run through for this. And the other reason is that there is something about laptops that just do not make them road-tough or gig-worthy.  And we know how tragic it can be to drop a macbook pro. 

On the other hand, in the guitar world, I know a person who has dropped an axe fx rack dsp guitar unit and the unit remained rock solid in operation.

This S3 module can be either in the form of a rack unit or some box.  But preferably rack-based….

And also, perhaps a TDM version, although if it was already hardware based on its own accord, there would probably be no need for that.

(also please include a editable MIDI hit pattern grid within the machine for those of us who prefer “clicking in” drum patterns).

Topic

[VOLiTiAN]

Farbeyond, there are so many issues with that as a request, and this is just my input, not really looking for a debate, just adding some food for thought.

For a start processing power (RAW) is cheap as chips these days, why run a bespoke hardware system to increase costs for both sides (user and company) also you’d have to understand the sheer workload from inception to beta testing, hardware fail over etc. Lots of financial speculation for no promise of return.

Have you never frozen an instrument in a DAW? the processing only needs to be done once, for future performance/playback why would you leave it all live?????

I’m curious to know what you think is inside the Axe-FX?

One a sidenote, just because someone dropped something and it was fine, DOES NOT mean that unit will take that kind of abuse and it’s very silly for you to suggest that having a RACK MOUNTED piece of kit suddenly becomes more reliable. A laptop with a solid state drive, setup for the task, is just as prone to hardware component failure as the next and i’d say 99% of live rigs can’t accommodate a beer being spilt on them.

You can get flightcases for all scenarios now, we’ve got one here for our bassists rig, which has his rack gear in the bottom, and his laptop built into the top – shocking I know, just think of all the issues he’s…. oh no wait, it’s never failed on us once…

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[MouseClickDrummer]

As for your question on what i think is inside the Axe FX, I am no DSP expert, but I have been told by numerous experts that those Tiger Sharc processors in the Axe FX are designed for fast processing of audio signals capable of that speed even processing intense algorithms, whereas stuff in computers is more geared towards a multi tasking sort of thing.  Apparently billions of float point calculations per instant that none of even the most adcanced personal computers can handle.  But I would not even be able to provide any further answers in this matter since I am not the one who can answer such questions thoroughly.  Perhaps I misunderstood them but I know I can clearly hear the difference going from plug-in amps to that.

But i guess for drums its not an issue since they are real samples.  Everything seems to trigger whats on my firewire drive very quickly… prolly because the samples are loaded into ram.   But then if another drive is required for the drum sounds… i say why not just put the entire engine on its own machine to begin with? 

The workload/R and D would be highly worth it and a massive pay off because the profits from what would otherwise be piracy would be an immense payoff of untold proportions.   And its not as hard as you think, for DAW usage, all they would need to do is figure out a way to load the samples into RAM off the machine the same way they do with the current samples so that it fires just as fast from the MIDI.    And from Live Usage – similar to those modules on the Roland V-Drums – except maybe on a rack or something… and with some kind of remote-control with industrial grade connections that sits on a stand just like the module from the Roland V-drums.

But I really don’t know man… the issue here is that when people see a laptop on stage, nobody would think it looks road-tough.  Its just its general construction and also look.   And when I think of laptops, to me they seem better suited for usage in a coffee shop, at home, on a bus, in a plane, at school, perhaps at a diner, in the park…. basically every where except for in heavy duty environments requiring industrial grade equipment.  The laptop is just too clean and fine..   But maybe this is just me, who knows, but it would be a stretch to say I am the only person who thinks laptops are just not for industrial-tough environments such as live musical gigs with their flimsy USB connections.  I say no thanks. 

Im just saying, standard DAW practice has your multi track software on the system drive as well as the plug-in, your session run off another drive and then another drive for the samples (at least thats how I have gotten mine to work with the fewest technical issues).  So why not just make the drum machine a seperate DSP unit for those who already work that way to begin with with things like their Access Virus or Waldorf synths, or their Pods, Axe FX’s, etc.  (and believe me, the market is huge for Acess Virus owners since we users bought it because we thought plug-in based synths sounded too thin and lacked depth. but again this is not a drum issue since the samples are real and sit on drives).   But Im just saying there are probabily tons of drummers who have their roland electronics and would love to dial in the Toontrack sounds without taking their macbook to the gig with them and have all these connections going to it like all these flimsy USB connections that don’t lock into place.   Its just not proper in my opinion. 

You simply just dont take a Miata off roading.

[Whitten]

Having been involved in projects I wouldn’t mind a switch to dsp. Bye, bye pirates and freeloaders.
This would be similar to the system UAD use right?
Having said that, I am certain prices would rise significantly. The UAD dongle is a significant expense on it’s own, and most of their actual plug-ins are on the high side of the norm.
I would think 99% of current Toontrack customers would be very angry if the company switched to hardware only and prices rose.

[MouseClickDrummer]

I think current users will be happy with the current product if new updates kept coming, and would either stay with it or pay for the upgrade.  I dont think too much anger would arise.

Kind of like UAD.  But also, for live use there would be no need for a computer to play the TT kits live.  It would be fully integrated into the front panel… (and there could be a dongle version too for DAW use.

It can also be like what was supposed to happen to the Eventide H8000FW for pro tools but never ended up happening – you would see the plug-in on the screen while the communication to the  unit over whatever cable would feed the unit whatever you are doing in the plug-in, and vice versa with a screen on the hardware, sending the plug-in whatever information you are doing on the screen.

So there would basically be three versions – one would be a rack, another a desktop (either for stand-alone usage with no computer), and another a dongle for computers without the front panel display or buttons.

[YoreP]

Considering TC Powercore gave up last year I don’t think there is much sense going into hardware and dedicated DSP.
Talking now out of my league but I understand that compiling programs for a dedicated DSP rather than computer is also not a small task.
Not sure if Tt could do both versions but it would be a huge financial gamble and I’d rather see Tt concentrating on
software alone.

[MouseClickDrummer]

The only financial gamble is if there are both versions but not if there would only be only either one of those two versions.  

Software is software…. regardless of what hardware it runs on or what programming is used.  Hiring programmers for different platforms is not the concern.

[Author]

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