Solo is hogging all ASIO channels?

[DeBased]

Hi,

I’m using the latest Superior 2 & Solo on my Emu 1616m.  I’ve set Solo to only output to one ASIO stereo pair on my mixer.  However when it’s running, none of my other ASIO apps (eg. Winamp with ASIO plugin, Guitar Rig 4, Pianoteq) can output anything to their dedicated channels either.  It’s as though Solo is opening all available channels, rather than just the ticked ones.

It means that I can’t jam along to a Winamp track, or with Guitar Rig.  Can Solo be fixed?

Topic

[Martin]

Hmm, I don’t think this has anything to do with Solo per se. I have the same issue at my studio PC (using an Mbox 2). When I have Pro Tools running, I can’t use any other application that has the Mbox as output. I can only use one application at the time, and I don’t even have to have it running, just started. Like if I start Mediaplayer but don’t play anything through it, Pro Tools still won’t start since the Mbox is in use.

Could you try the otherway around, first starting Winamp and then Solo and see what happens? My first thought is that this issue has something to do with your soundcard and not Toontrack Solo.

Cheers,

Martin Kristoffersson
Sound Designer

[DeBased]

No it’s definitely Solo.  DAWs are expected to grab every input and output, as you tend to do all your work in them.  But ASIO standalone apps work differently – I can run Winamp, Pianoteq (standalone), NI standalones (Guitar Rig, Reaktor, Kontakt etc) all together, each only outputting on their own ASIO channels.  As soon as Solo is launched, they all go quiet – and when Solo exits, they all output again.

So basically Solos is behaving as a DAW when it should behave like a standalone.  I’m fairly sure it’s that it simply opens all possible ASIO outputs, rather than those it has been asked to in its settings.  That simple change should fix it.

[DeBased]

A small correction, if I have other standalones already running, Solo does NOT silence them.

This is consistent with my analysis though – an ASIO app cannot open channels that are already opened by another (technically ASIO allows it, but any output is discarded until those channels are released by the first app).  So the issue is that I have to start the other standalones before Solo.

That’s not a sufficient workaround though – for example, Winamp releases its ASIO channels after every track.  So Winamp has to be playing when you launch Solo, and when the track completes it releases the channels to Solo which never gives them back – useless.  The same is true with other standalones if you make any changes that make them temporarily release their ASIO channels.

As I said, the simple fix is for Solo to only open the channels which the user has set for it.

[Patrik]

This is indeed how Solo works at the moment, currently we open up all ASIO outputs even if they are not in use (by selecting them from the audio channel settings page). I am investigating how to change this so that we only open up the ones actually in use and so far it looks promising, I dont know when you will be able to see this change live or if at all, but now you know we are looking into it atleast =)

/ Patrik

Patrik Wall - Toontrack
Coder

[DeBased]

This is indeed how Solo works at the moment, currently we open up all ASIO outputs even if they are not in use.

Naughty ;).

So far it looks promising, I dont know when you will be able to see this change live or if at all, but now you know we are looking into it atleast =)

Great – except ‘if at all’ is no good! :).

Happy to beta-test (do this a lot & a programmer myself).

[Rogue]

ORIGINAL: DeBased
Happy to beta-test (do this a lot & a programmer myself).

please send an email to betatoontrack•com (replace and • as required), referencing this thread. Again, though, that’s not to say we’ll get around to move forward with this immediately but when we do it would be good to have you to test along our usual guys.

Rogue Marechal - Toontrack
Configuration Manager

[DeBased]

please send an email to betatoontrack•com (replace and • as required), referencing this thread. Again, though, that’s not to say we’ll get around to move forward with this immediately but when we do it would be good to have you to test along our usual guys.

Check, done.

[Patrik]

I was testing the same scenario as you described here:
* Winamp with ASIO plugin
* Solo
* Guitar Rig
I setup all three apps to use the same ASIO driver and the same output channel and I was majorly confused when this actually worked flawlessly.
That means i was able to put up a groove in Superior2 inside TTsolo, plug a guitar in to Guitar Rig 4 and jam along, or load a mp3 inside winamp and jam along with my midi keyboard that controls Superior2.

This worked with the “old” Solo 1.2.2 available from toontrack.com on windows vista64, so if you are not using that version of solo, try it first (not that it should matter at all, just to be sure)
Also what OS are you using? I doubt there should be any differences in ASIO handling in XP/vista/7 but something is clearly different with my setup and yours that stops yours from working.
What sound card/driver are you using? I tested this with both a USB Lexicon I-OnixU22 and a FireWire MOTU828MKII, maybe these cards have support for multiclient use where yours have not.

Anyway, something strange is going on, as i said earlier, this actually should NOT work, but for some reason it does for me.(which makes my work a bit troublesome, hard to fix something that aint broken hehe)

/Patrik

Patrik Wall - Toontrack
Coder

[DeBased]

Curious.

I setup all three apps to use the same ASIO driver and the same output channel

I use different output channels for each app, so they get their own soundcard mixer strip.  But outputting to the same channel doesn’t work either.

and I was majorly confused when this actually worked flawlessly.
That means i was able to put up a groove in Superior2 inside TTsolo, plug a guitar in to Guitar Rig 4 and jam along, or load a mp3 inside winamp and jam along with my midi keyboard that controls Superior2.

Which order did you start the apps at?  Have you tried starting Solo first?

This worked with the “old” Solo 1.2.2 available from toontrack.com on windows vista64, so if you are not using that version of solo, try it first (not that it should matter at all, just to be sure)

I am using 1.2.2 (downloaded 2 days ago).  Is there a previous version with the same numbers?

Also what OS are you using?

My setup:

Win7-64 (Home pro)
Emu 1616m interface

I’ve always seen the behaviour I’m talking about on Emu interfaces (only one app can output to the same ASIO channel), even back on XP.

maybe these cards have support for multiclient use where yours have not.

That’s likely.  However all other standalones work for me, so opening only the channels you use is best practice.  There’s no reason to open more than that anyway, right (otherwise what is the point of the setting)?

BTW, I have two more requests:

1) Option to auto-load the last-used setup on launch.
2) Client window positions should be restored when a project is loaded.  Instead the main window is always minimized, and doesn’t restore to the saved position.

Basically you just want to run the thing and go as soon as poss, rather than load & arrange windows every time.

3) A saved project from the x64 version doesn’t load into the x86 version (no error, just nothing happens).  Interoperability is important when you move amongst systems (eg. I plan on running live on x86).

EDIT:

4) Recently-used project list in File menu (would be nice).

[Patrik]

ORIGINAL: DeBased
I use different output channels for each app, so they get their own soundcard mixer strip.  But outputting to the same channel doesn’t work either.

Both works here.

Which order did you start the apps at?  Have you tried starting Solo first?

Yes all variations, solo first/guitar rig first/winamp first

I am using 1.2.2 (downloaded 2 days ago).  Is there a previous version with the same numbers?

No that should be it (i downloaded it today)

I’ve always seen the behaviour I’m talking about on Emu interfaces (only one app can output to the same ASIO channel), even back on XP.

You are referring to TTsolo or in general?
Edit: Nvm, i read it wrong…

ORIGINAL: DeBased

maybe these cards have support for multiclient use where yours have not.

That’s likely.  However all other standalones work for me, so opening only the channels you use is best practice.  There’s no reason to open more than that anyway, right (otherwise what is the point of the setting)?

BTW, I have two more requests:

1) Option to auto-load the last-used setup on launch.
2) Client window positions should be restored when a project is loaded.  Instead the main window is always minimized, and doesn’t restore to the saved position.

Basically you just want to run the thing and go as soon as poss, rather than load & arrange windows every time.

3) A saved project from the x64 version doesn’t load into the x86 version (no error, just nothing happens).  Interoperability is important when you move amongst systems (eg. I plan on running live on x86).

EDIT:

4) Recently-used project list in File menu (would be nice).

1) The last setup should in fact load upon start (unless it crashed) since all settings are saved to registry and loaded upon start.
2) This should also happen.
3) This is most likely due to a conflict in versions since you are probably running the public beta of Solo 64bit, with the latest versions currently in development it works. (Even then you are not garanteed to be able to load a 32-bit project in 64-bit since you might have a 32 bit plug installed but the 64 bit equivalent not installed)

It seems something has gone wrong with your Solo installment based on 1) and 2). If you are feeling confident in handling the registry please check (after closing Solo)

CURRENT_USER/Software/Toontrack/Solo
or
CURRENT_USER/Software/Toontrack/Solo64
and see if you can find the following keys

for 1)
*AudioAPI
*AudioChannel0-7
*AudioDevice
…
for 2)
* PosX
* PosY
* SizeX
* SizeY

/Patrik

Patrik Wall - Toontrack
Coder

[DeBased]

1) The last setup should in fact load upon start (unless it crashed) since all settings are saved to registry and loaded upon start.

I meant auto-load ‘the last project’, as you often use the same one for jamming.

3) This is most likely due to a conflict in versions since you are probably running the public beta of Solo 64bit, with the latest versions currently in development it works. (Even then you are not garanteed to be able to load a 32-bit project in 64-bit since you might have a 32 bit plug installed but the 64 bit equivalent not installed)

Right – but when the x64 version is finalised, aren’t the projects independent of the binary?  Ideally they should be.  I’m talking about kit setup, output channels etc.  Ideally that would load into either version.

2) This should also happen.
It seems something has gone wrong with your Solo installment based on 1) and 2).

Edit: sorry, I meant ‘child window’

Strange.  Before, the main *child* window would start minimized after load (was reproducable).
I just tried it again to take screenshots, and this time the child window is restored – but always lower than it was saved (see attached screenshots).

(side-note:  I’m also constantly asked if I want to save the project when I close it, even when I haven’t made any changes since last loading or saving).

If you are feeling confident in handling the registry please check (after closing Solo)

Always (note I haven’t really used the x86 version):

solo:

“Path0″=”C:\Program Files (x86)\Steinberg\VstPlugins”
“AudioDevice”=”E-MU ASIO”
“BufferSize”=”256”
“LatencyMs”=dword:00000006
“AudioChannel0″=”1”
“AudioChannel1″=”0”
“AudioChannel2″=”0”
“AudioChannel3″=”0”
“AudioChannel4″=”0”
“AudioChannel5″=”0”
“AudioChannel6″=”0”
“AudioChannel7″=”0”
“SizeX”=”1000”
“SizeY”=”700”
“PosX”=”108”
“PosY”=”112”
“MAXIMIZED”=”0”
“AudioAPI”=”ASIO”
“TimeSigNum”=”4”
“TimeSigDenum”=”4”
“ClickDelta”=”1000”
“Click1″=”Click1_Hard”
“Click2″=”Click1_Hard”
“Click1Vol”=”1000”
“Click2Vol”=”1000”

solo64:
“SizeX”=”1088”
“SizeY”=”727”
“PosX”=”101”
“PosY”=”106”
“MAXIMIZED”=”0”
“AudioDevice”=”E-MU ASIO”
“AudioAPI”=”ASIO”
“BufferSize”=”64”
“AudioChannel0″=”0”
“AudioChannel1″=”0”
“AudioChannel2″=”0”
“AudioChannel3″=”0”
“AudioChannel4″=”0”
“AudioChannel5″=”0”
“AudioChannel6″=”1”
“AudioChannel7″=”1”
“TimeSigNum”=”4”
“TimeSigDenum”=”4”
“ClickDelta”=”1000”
“Click1Vol”=”1000”
“Click2Vol”=”1000”
“Path0″=”C:\Program Files\Steinberg\VSTPlugins\”
“Path1″=”C:\Program Files\VstPlugins\Toontrack\64bit”
“MidiDevice”=”E-DSP MIDI Port [EC00]”
“MidiDevice2″=”E-DSP MIDI Port 2 [EC00]”
“MidiDevice3″=”E-MU XMidi2X2”
“MidiDevice4″=”MIDIIN2 (E-MU XMidi2X2)”
“Click1″=”Click1_Hard”
“Click2″=”Click1_Hard”

Layout when project is saved:

[DeBased]

… Layout when project is reloaded

[Patrik]

Ok then everything seems to be as expected anyways (except the matter with ASIO that is)

Save files at the moment does not include any audio settings but instead only saves the state of the plugs and mixer etc, there could probably be some idea to save this information as well.

About compatibility between 64 and 32 bit save files you are right, ideally they should load in which ever version you use, however there are some problems with that as mentioned before (32 bit version installed but not 64), and if we decide to introduce saving of audio settings we cannot garantee they work as some sound card manufacturers only supply 32 bit drivers etc.

At the moment there are no plans to introduce auto loading of last project but maybe we need something like that, or simply have a “recent projects” menu for easier loading.

I have also noticed the slight moving of child windows upon loading projects and it will be fixed for future versions.

The dialog that is asking to save all the time is there since SOLO at the moment doesnt compare states of all plugs between saves/loads/startup, this feature is already in place in our Beatstation host which is a direct descendant of SOLO so chances are very high this is enabled in a future version of SOLO as well.

Hope that helps =)
Now I just need to get my hands on a E-MU sound card and try out the ASIO issue…

/Patrik

Patrik Wall - Toontrack
Coder

[DeBased]

Save files at the moment does not include any audio settings but instead only saves the state of the plugs and mixer etc,

That’s what I meant.

At the moment there are no plans to introduce auto loading of last project but maybe we need something like that, or simply have a “recent projects” menu for easier loading.

Both would be v. useful, if I had to pick one it’s auto-loading.  So much more convenient.

Now I just need to get my hands on a E-MU sound card and try out the ASIO issue…

No need, I’ll beta it for you (will send the NDA later today).

[Anonymous]

This is killing me and not sure if there was a resolution since the last post. One of the biggest benefits to Toontrack Solo for me and I assume others is to sample drums and jam to them with Guitar Rig or other instrument software. Has there been any new developments? Thanks in advance,
Pete

[Author]

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