Scott MartinezI am wondering if there are any sample packs out there that do NOT have drums that ring horribly. I love EZ drummer, but I wish they would have taken the ring out of the toms when they were recorded. If there’s an easy way to do it, I’m all ears.
when I usually record drums, I pad them to get rid of that ring – because I don’t know of ANY mixes, other than ambient, sparse music, that this sounds good in. They’re no good for rock, at least the length of time that they ring.
So I’m interested in some ideas/sources/techniques to get rid of that problem.
Thank you.
Scott Martinez, Owner/Engineer
Audio Cave Recording Studio
http://www.audiocaverecording.com
I am wondering if there are any sample packs out there that do NOT have drums that ring horribly. I love EZ drummer, but I wish they would have taken the ring out of the toms when they were recorded. If there’s an easy way to do it, I’m all ears.
when I usually record drums, I pad them to get rid of that ring – because I don’t know of ANY mixes, other than ambient, sparse music, that this sounds good in. They’re no good for rock, at least the length of time that they ring.
So I’m interested in some ideas/sources/techniques to get rid of that problem.
Thank you.
Scott Martinez, Owner/Engineer
Audio Cave Recording Studio
http://www.audiocaverecording.com
Jace Vektry izotope RX10. Thats what Im going to do. Since the ring is a mid high frequency thing, you might be able to reduce some of it there without destroying the architecture of the punch and womp.
Scott MartinezThere is PLENTY you can do to prevent toms from ringing horribly. Mostly, padding the drums themselves to prevent it. I have been a recording engineer for quite a while, and if someone’s toms are doing that, you can do the ‘ol Gaffer Tape and toilet paper trick. It prevents extended ringing. There are also gel packs some drummers carry with them and they help.
After you do that to a tom, you get a nice attack and full sound, but without all of that extra ring that muddies up a dense mix. It’s an easy fix, and why they didn’t include some samples like that is BEYOND me. That type of ring is OK in a song that has room to breathe, but for dense mixes, it’s awful.
Scott Martinez, Owner/Engineer
Audio Cave Recording Studio
http://www.audiocaverecording.com
TonyExcellent thread, and very similar to one that I proposed a few months ago. Some great comments,… hopefully Toontrack is listening.
Musically, I’m not good enough to justify purchasing SD and so I stick with EZD, however, I am appalled by the toms.
I’ve always been able to find a snare or kick to suit what I am doing but the toms always ring too much,… even all those ones that purport to be towelled and so on.
As suggested, the toms that are provided might be good in some genres but I prefer something that is more “thud” than “boing”.
I suggest something like the way Ringo had his toms set for the late ’64 to ’67 period. An even better example would be Cream’s “White Room”. Baker hits those things viciously but the sound dies almost instantly, without being muddy. Makes for a great impact on the fills.
My suggestion was, and still is, a pack such as the Kicks and Snares but for Toms,… and while Toontrack is working on that they may as well do Hats and Cymbals. Variety not just in gear used but also articulations.
Regards to all.
JuicySo you think all the Awarded and Amazing Producer /Engineers that Toontrack have enlisted over the years are wrong, not worth their Salt ?
I have BFD3, AD2,GGD, Mixwave drums as well as SD3 and EZD3. Most all of them are the same in regards to toms being open and not so muted. Nice and open.
Toontrack do have plenty of expansions that have deadened and or Muted Toms.
Primarily they are recorded open so they can ring for ppl who like ring and natural sounds. Once Deadened they are useless to everybody else. That would be shortsighted. If it bothers you , Pony up for SD3, use the Envelope filters on each drum to get the preferred decay, send the Toms to a Tom Buss also perhaps use a Transient designer to Punch up the Attack further and Comp.EQ to taste as swell like is normally done by the mix engineer.
Any how Toontrack do have expansions that have deadened and or Muted Toms.
TonyIf you could name the EZX packs then that would be appreciated. I have spent a small fortune on EZX’s and even the ones that purport to have “towelled” or deadened Toms still ring too much.
I do like your suggestion about using an envelope tool. I haven’t tried them on Toms.
For those of us that aren’t sound engineers, I would still suggest that there is a place for some deadened samples “straight out of the box”. Nobody in this thread seems to be saying there shouldn’t be ringy Toms,… I think they just want some variety.
I see that EZD3 has a “towelled” kit. It would be good to hear some opinions on how “dead” the samples are for that kit.
Regards
myronI wouldn’t bother with the gate or hi-pass in the case of SD3. I would use the envelope palette in the kit piece properties. Done right with the release curve and time, you can get a more natural taper of the ring, which in the context of a song is what counts perceptually. You can also simulate other muted effects with the envelope.
jord
- This post was modified 3 years, 10 months ago by Bear-Faced Cow.
I use the envelope setting on the kit piece (as described) to get less room and ring, when necessary. It works great.
In the Pocket EZX and Hip Hop EZX have dead toms included.
M1 Mac Mini • 16GB RAM • OSX 14.2.1 • UA Quad • Logic 10.8 • Kontakt 7 • Toontrack SD3
Richard ViolaI battled that for days in the Modern EZX. Finally I had success with putting a gate set short on the toms (using Cakewalk) and doing the same for the snare since that mic picks up the toms, then turning down both mic bleeds. I have a separate channel in CW for each EZD output and insert the gates there. Now the toms are bop-bop-bop instead of boooooop….. boooooop….. for 2 seconds long.
Bear-Faced CowIt’s not a problem. Either choose an EZX that has the type of toms recorded in the style you are looking for, or go with Superior Drummer which will allow you to shape the toms to your liking.
jord
TonySorry Jord,
I have to disagree. It is a problem. I have now purchased waaaaay too many EZX packs and none have toms with a short “thud” as described by some of the others (in this thread) as being desirable.
If I could find the EZX pack that you suggest may exist I’d be very happy.
Like most people, I like to utilise the toms in my fills but I can’t do it (with EZD) when even a low velocity tom hit results in a note that extends into the rest of the triplet or roll. You end up with a “Wall of Sound” rather than a crisp clean fill.
I’m going to try the gating method in my DAW and see if it can help but I still say Toontrack could actually record solid short duration tom hits in one of the EZX packs.
Regards
Bear-Faced CowDisagree all you wish. It’s not a problem on ToonTrack’s part. I can name various EZXs in my library with toms that don’t ring like the EZ Drummer 2 core library. I’m using one EZX now as a matter of fact whose toms have a relatively short decay. it all boils down to your choice of producers. Not all of them are suitable for the genre of music we’re making.
And like I said, if that don’t cut it, there’s always Superior Drummer in which you have all of the control you want.
jord
TonyHi Jord,
You say that you could name various EZX packs but if you would do so then I’d appreciate it. Especially the one that you said that you are currently using.
Regards
Tony
Bear-Faced CowI just finished a mix with the Michael Ilbert Signature EZX. The toms sit beautifully in the mix and don’t overwhelm it in any way. Although I have numerous packs, these two have been my go to with EZ Drummer 3 since their release.
Again, a lot of this will be dependent on the type of music that you make. Drums will affect the energy and tonality of the song.
jord
TonyThanks Jord,
I’ll check it out.
I also listened to the new pack, Alchemy of Pop,… there might be some promising stuff there with regard to the Toms and how the production/engineering has been applied to them.
Thanks again
Tony
Bear-Faced CowI’ll admit that I haven’t used Alchemy of Pop enough, but yes it’s another one with great sounding toms (and the rest of the kit pieces). Very roots-ish, which I like. Hill, Skye and crew did a fabulous job on it. I would have loved to have been able to have seen a bit of this one in the making, seeing as Canterbury Studios is pretty much an hour away from me.
jord
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