Question for td 20 users please help

[norrie]

Hey all!

First off I love my toontrack products and couldnt ask for anything better but I have one problem….

I have everything sounding awesome when I sit back and play a nice mellow groove but….

If I hit singel hits on the snare then all is good or even a very basic snare roll nothing fast and no problem all sounds great but ….

when I go to play a very very fast snare roll for some reason its like I am missing hits I know I am not missing them because if I go back and use the sounds straight out the td20 brain they are there clear as day but if I am useing it in toontrack it sounds like I am not hiting all the strokes but iam.

Sorry if I havent explaned this very well.

I have my set up with close curv 2 on for the high hats and the kits sound awesome every thing sounds great even very very fast high hat work, tom rolls or double kick work just this snare problem and its holding me back a bit. as I have a song to record for someone and there for its holding them back as well. ( you get where I am comeing from)

The td20 brain is all set at factory default.

could it be a problem with the trigger set up in my td20 brain ?

Would makeing the skin tighter on the kit make a difference ?

Could it be becasue I am not hiting dead center every time ? I think I am but If I wasnt would there be a way to change this so it sounds ok for every stroke ?

I am clutching at straws for ideas here guys and hope someone can help.

It just seems weird every other drum is fine but not this one.

Any ideas what could be causeing this ? Is it a problem with the trigger set up in my td20 brain ? The brain is all set at factory default.

Could it be something i need to change in SD2?

Like I say everything else is awesome but I just dont understand whats going wrong with the snare.

I also should maybe have said its like this on every snare in SD2 and all the extra packs I have bought

You have all been great with help on eveything so far so I am keeping my fingers crossed to get this working for me asap

Thanks so much guys 🙂

Norrie

Windows 7 (64 bit ) Intel I7 930 12GB OCZ Gold Sonar 8.5 Producer VS700r VS700c Superior 2 / MF/NY EZ mix Roland TD-20

Topic

[Damian Blunt]

Hi,
Have you checked that the MIDI information is getting to S2?  If you record the MIDI in Sonar are there any gaps in the rolls?

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[norrie]

Some of the notes are yes but not all them and its only when I play the snare fast like a really fast roll it just seems to miss out some of the hits sounds slopy and well crap but if i do the same roll on say a tom it would be fine but crap because it was on a tom 😛

Its as weird I know if I can get to the bottom of it It will prob be something very simple

Its almost as if the velocitys are going crazy but they shouldnt be as I am realy hiting it hard but not all notes are being heard its like I am playing to fast for it to register the hits I have done? If that makes sence

Windows 7 (64 bit ) Intel I7 930 12GB OCZ Gold Sonar 8.5 Producer VS700r VS700c Superior 2 / MF/NY EZ mix Roland TD-20

[Damian Blunt]

There are a few things that spring to mind such as the ‘retrigger cancel’ and ‘mask time’ settings in the TD-20, however if the onboard sounds are playing correctly I doubt these would be responsible. You could try reducing retrigger cancel or mask time to see if this helps though.

If the notes aren’t actually being recorded then it may be something to do with your MIDI interface. If the notes are there but you feel that there is some inconsistency in velocities you could try turning semi-seq off in S2. You could also try adjusting the velocity curve in S2 to suit your playing style.

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[norrie]

try turning semi-seq off in S2.

How would I d this just to see if it works ?

I plan to spend tomorow geting it fixed as time is ticking and so is my brain ready to explode 😛

Norrie

Windows 7 (64 bit ) Intel I7 930 12GB OCZ Gold Sonar 8.5 Producer VS700r VS700c Superior 2 / MF/NY EZ mix Roland TD-20

[Scott]

ORIGINAL: norrie

try turning semi-seq off in S2.

How would I d this just to see if it works ?

I plan to spend tomorow geting it fixed as time is ticking and so is my brain ready to explode 😛

Norrie

In the ‘Humanize’ section of S2, turn off ‘Semi Seq’ (blue light ‘off’).

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[norrie]

Thanks I wil try that and see how I get on

Since every other pad is fine I was thinking it might be the mesh head is to lose or something so will need to try that aswell but I am unsure as to just how tight they can be. Do you know by any chance ?

Norrie

Windows 7 (64 bit ) Intel I7 930 12GB OCZ Gold Sonar 8.5 Producer VS700r VS700c Superior 2 / MF/NY EZ mix Roland TD-20

[Scott]

No, I don’t use an e-drum.

Damian is your man for that type of question. 

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[norrie]

Thanks I hope he jumps in on this thread again before I wake up (fingers crossed) then I can try forst thing in the morning as its 3:20 am here so off to bed for me the nstart geting this fixed first thing I wake up.

Thanks scot!

Windows 7 (64 bit ) Intel I7 930 12GB OCZ Gold Sonar 8.5 Producer VS700r VS700c Superior 2 / MF/NY EZ mix Roland TD-20

[Scott]

Damian’s from the UK so it’s the middle of the night for him too!

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

Try switching out the snare pad for a tom to see if it’s a faulty trigger/pad.

[Damian Blunt]

There are a host of things you could try, starting at the source TD-20 and working your way through the chain until you get to S2….but I re-read your first post and I may have spotted a problem. You say you are trying to hit the snare dead centre every time – this is actually something to avoid with the Roland pads, the reason being that the top of the foam cone sits there. You will get a ‘hotspot’ where the velocity will be much higher. This is not so noticeable with the TD-20 sounds but can be a real problem with vsti’s. By repeatedly hitting the cone you also risk damaging it, particularly if the mesh heads are not tight enough.

If you avoid the hotspot and find the loudest notes in S2 are not being played you can adjust the velocity response in S2 by going to the mapping tab and changing the curve.

Other things that can affect performance are:

TD-20
loose leads
head tension
crosstalk cancellation being incorrectly set so when two pads are hits simultaneously one cancels the other out
threshold and sensitivity settings
velocity curve settings
Retrig cancel and mask time (already mentioned)

MIDI interface
Some cheap MIDI/USB interfaces have been known to cause dropping of notes
Possibly using a busy USB hub
Possibly using a USB 1 port if your interface is USB 2

Settings in S2
Try turning semi-seq off
Make sure cache mode is not enabled
Try adjusting the response using the velocity curve

These are a few things that have sprung to mind and I’m sure there is a lot of other things that I’ve missed

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[norrie]

Hi damian

Thanks for all your help I am about to get my morning coffee in me then try and get stuck in ang get this working 🙂

On last thing that is on my mind as the tom rolls seem fine or playng the same thing on the tom works great but do it on the snare and it sounds rotton I feel it could be down to tension on the mesh head the mesh head fels slighltly looser not much but maybe enough to make a difference ?

So with that said do you know is there a limmit to just how tight I can make the heads ? or is it just down to what some ones personal feel is like because personaly if I could have them all a bit tighter I would theres no saging or anything on the skin just feel the snair could be a bit tighter

If you could let me know my first thing would be to try saping the heads one tom for the snare and if tha work then I knwo to tighten the pad Its just going o be a case of by how much I hope ? 🙂

I cant thank you enough for al your help in your posts and I am sure I will be able to sort it you have been great 🙂

Oh and while I remember some one said to me on the sonar forum that sds has a td 20 setting ? Is that true ? I thought it was just a edrum setin it had then you jst fine tune bits yoru self ? or was I wrong ?

Thanks so much!!!!

Norrie

Windows 7 (64 bit ) Intel I7 930 12GB OCZ Gold Sonar 8.5 Producer VS700r VS700c Superior 2 / MF/NY EZ mix Roland TD-20

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

I have a TD-20 kit myself, and I don’t get the impression that they’re that sensitive to…anything, really. Hence my tip to check if the pad does the same when connected to another input. My kit has worked flawlessly without any weird triggering malfunctions of any kind, regardless of head tension etc.

[Damian Blunt]

You can crank the heads on Roland Drums pretty tight although I would advise you to stick to the guidelines in the TD-20 manual. I have mine as tight as I would a regular snare. The other thing you could do is record a MIDI file and send it to me. There is no specific TD-20 setting in S2.

Just a thought…one other thing is that if you select the edrum preset you will probably have positional sensing enabled….this will trigger different samples when you hit either the edge or center of the drum. With different S2 libraries you may need to manually adjust the levels of these articulations so they play consistently with your set-up. To do this ‘right click’ on the snare drum. In the bottom right hand pane of the interface select ‘edge’ from the articulation drop-down, click on the ‘edit articulation only’ button and then adjust the level fader in the same pane until the performance is consistent.

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[norrie]

Thanks for all the help guys!

ve tottaly lost a day today trying to get a problem with my roland Vs700 sonar producer8.5.3 fixed over on the sonar forum http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2086465&mpage=1#2087731

No one has a clue whats causeing the drop out problems and uk tec suport have passed it of to america tec support who are being great and trying to help but thats another day gone where its not fixed

So with that said I will be trying everything everyone has said on here the second my sonar problem is fixed.

Damian I will send you a midi file of some fast snare roles I will do the midi file the second I can get it done.

Thaks again guys you are all aweosme and cant thank you enough for all of your help

This is why I love toontrack products 😀 the people are awesome the tec support is awesome and The program and sounds are better than I could have hoped for… Apart from this small problem that I am sure will get fixed with all the help you have all given me 😀

Norrie

Windows 7 (64 bit ) Intel I7 930 12GB OCZ Gold Sonar 8.5 Producer VS700r VS700c Superior 2 / MF/NY EZ mix Roland TD-20

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