Presets and general mixing.

[benfan]

How do you guys ensure that after the drums are mixed within SD, that your other instruments sit well in the mix. 
Take my example – If i use a preset within Metal Foundry, and import the finished product so to speak, to cubase as one sound file.  How then would I ensure that the other instruments (Guitars, Bass, Vocals etc.) blended in with the mix and didnt just sound as though they where sat on top.
I have been pondering this all day. 

Topic

[Scott]

First thing that I do is: I do not use drum presets.

Next, I don’t export a stereo drum mix and then try to mix other instruments to it. This would tie my hands as a mixer to the point that I would ask for the drum stems if I got a stereo drum track. Unless, of course, if that stereo drum track was some kind of repetitive loop and the producer wanted it that way.

There are just too many variables when dealing with music to expect a preset to work for the song I’m working on or the arrangement/instrumentation I’m using. The preset can’t possibly know I’m using a live, upright bass in my mix and how to tweak the kick drum to fit with that bass. Or, how to mix the snare to fit with the electric guitars or vocals.

The presets are ok for a starting point, but much massaging of the preset is required depending on your song/arrangement/instrumentation.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[VOLiTiAN]

You’re looking for a cohesion in the sound, that normally comes from (at a very basic level mind!) physically looking at what freq’s you’re already “using up” in the spectrum with the drums, then looking to see if/how much of an overlap there is from any other instruments. so you’re looking to understand that each instrument has it’s own space and when things are finally ending up at the master buss you don’t have accumulation of freq’s that are either cancelling or boosting each other.

E.q. we know the kick could have some punch around 100hz for a nice deep sound, but wait, hang on a sec your bass wants that same thud, so you’d have to make a decision, you could just carve one freq out of one instrument, you could carve say half and half out of both, you could look into sidechaining, or say low-pass sidechaining (where the kick would only dip the level of any signal, BELOW a certain freq range).

Just some of the thought process going on in my noggin anyway 🙂

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[benfan]

Thanks for the replies.  My main gripe is that im mixing on a laptop, so i would prefer to do all my drum mixing within the SD interface.  However if i do this and then send it out as a stereo audio file, i wont have the ability to say bus the bass to a compression track with the kick for example. Is this an issue you guys would find when doing all of your drum mixing within SD?

[VOLiTiAN]

Most sidechains can allow you to use specific freq ranges to trigger them, might help to isolate the kick and still use it as a trigger input. I.e. put a stereo freq analyser on the output track of SD and work out where the kicks punching.

Aside from that, is there not a way you can mix in superior but just have a dry kick outputted to a track which will act as the trigger for the sidechain? You can then set the send as pre-fader, you drop the level of the kick on that track and then still use the signal i.e. no dry signal playing through the mix.

Side-note, you’re prolly going to want to get used to using outboard effects… and being on a laptop is neither here nor there in that process aside from visual realestate, even then you can hook up additional monitors for more spanning 🙂

Also perhaps looking into something like the Novation Nocturn, might prove useful, it’s a really powerful little device.

http://uk.novationmusic.com/products/midi_controller/nocturn

Got a few of these, inc the keyboard variety and that have proved time after-time a really worthwhile little investment.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[benfan]

Thanks for the reply.  Ill have a look into what you said about triggering the sidechain.  My laptop isnt designed for studio engineering (Dual core AMD, 4 gig RAM) which is why i want to do all my mixing within SD, so i can save RAM and my CPU for mixing the other instruments.

[VOLiTiAN]

Pretty much the same sort of specs we’re running.

The problem with most laptops tends to be the harddrive speed, 5400rpm just doesn’t cut it, plus there’s major issues when multiple track/freeze’s are in the project.

It’s the CPU that’ll bog down in the long run I reckon.

Unless you run alot of samplers etc

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[benfan]

Im planning on eventually upgrading to a custom built pc eventually, when i get better at it.  Some decent monitors come first though i think.  Do you guys like to bounce from SD to your DAW with the output peaking as close to 0db without it peaking?
Im not sure which the best signal is to send into my DAW when iv finished with the mixing.

[Scott]

I never approach 0dBFS for my mixes. I keep things under -6dBFS.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[VOLiTiAN]

Hi Scott,

Is it fair to assume you mean on the master bus? So the mastering engineer has some headroom, or are you suggesting your drums submix never goes over -6db?

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[Scott]

I try not to have any channels in my DAW peak over -6dBFS, audio tracks, groups, master bus, etc.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[benfan]

Thanks for the replies.  I was under the assumption that i should mix in SD so that my main output channel for the whole mix should be pushing up to 0dB.  And then i can adjust the level accordingly within Cubase.

[benfan]

Bumping this thread.

When iv finished mixing within SD2, what is the best way of bouncing the audio as a stereo track into cubase, post mixer (so the WAV file is affected by all the EQ and what not is taking place in SD2).  And is there a way of bouncing seperate WAV files for each bus from SD2?  For example if im using the Fredrik Thordendaal preset, all of the mixing has been done on busses 1-8.

[VOLiTiAN]

Why don’t you freeze the instrument? Then if you need to make edits in situ, or still want access to the external plugins you can freeze the instruments not channels. You can also use those freeze files in the audio folder as the bounce files, and you can setup how many output channels show in your mixer by right/clicking the instrument in the panel (F11) prior to freeze.

www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN

[benfan]

Thanks for the reply, i dont quite understand though! (I am still a little simple towards all of this).  I want to export the audio into my DAW now iv finished all the mixing so i can make sure the levels are correct (there is always a slight discrepency in volume between what i heard in SD and what i hear in Cubase) and start tracking bass and guitar.  Am i correct in thinking that if i export the output that SD uses as an audio mixdown into Cubase, it will send in the raw files before they have been affected by my mixing?

[John]

Hi,

the output from the Superior 2 plugin is WYHIWYG. If you record the output, it’s including how you have used the Superior 2 mixer.
You always have the choice to use the Superior 2 internal Bounce function as well.
This lets you Bounce per Microphone, with or without bleeds, bleeds split, through the mixer or not, 16-bit or 24-bit, etc.
I recommend checking it out.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Author]

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