MouseClickDrummerJust need the opinion of anyone here who does ultra high end pro audio recording and engineering. Is the Axe FX 2 the Real Deal? Does it sound exactly like recording real amps? I am almost committing to the purchase, but there are mixed reviews so right now I am not so sure if Im gonna take the bait yet.
The problem I have noticed with amp simulators in general, aside from some of the missing pushed feel and a lack of airiness to the top end of the sound, is that I have always associated them to exhibit an unnatural fizziness on the top end. Carefully applying a low pass filter helps but then there is even more missing air.
When the first Fractal Axe FX came out I noticed an improvement in this area with the air knob in the cab block… but there was still some of that real air effect missing. But it was by far the best attempt. But does anyone know if the second generation Axe FX 2 has really nailed it?
If anyone has clips, i would really like to hear. Is this the real deal? Has this area finally been mastered in such a way that we basement and bedroom studio enthusiasts can finally match the realistic quality of our Toontrack drumming software with an amp simulator for our mixes so that the million dollar studio has become obsolete? Or do we simply need to still visit the pro studios or go through the hassles involved with the recording of real tube amps in iso booths/rooms?
VOLiTiANFarBeyond, If I may throw a little bit of debate into the mix.
The question you’re posing I feel is a little redundant as recording through a real amp and hearing it back through the cab or then through a set of full range reference monitors is going to be different due to the freq’s they can represent, so naturally sitting behind the desk is going to reap different opinions as to what, a good sound is, could be, and sonically in the mix should be.
I’d be thinking along two lines, firstly, the point about the top end in the distortion, this is one of the fundamental issues I have with software preamps and the like, I have always found that the fizziness is ever-present and lacking in that smooth rounded top end we all like especially for searing lead sounds.
My random approach: First, roll of the top end with a bell EQ rather than lowpass it, then comparatively raise the top end around say 7-10k, plugs like Voxengo’s Harmony EQ has a really high range aswell (upto around 20k) that can add some real sparkle to the mix much like the adding of around 70-100hz ads a nice perceived punch on the low-end on the mix.
I’d say do roll off the high-end *before* the cab, and then add the topend/air after the cab? Curb the fizziness and get back some speaker clarity?
Either way, with the point I’m making above, I still feel like you, that the axe fx is still missing the mark slightly.
Secondarily is the point you make about the feedback from the preamp, that kind of movement before it hits the speaker, when you’re really digging in that bit extra on the palm muting, or when you’ve got neck all out of shape with crazy vibrato, “something” is lacking, and again I feel that although the axe fx does get close, it’s just lacking that bit extra that really defines it for me.
It’s weird really, I bet I could be given a bunch of tones and not tell them apart from an axe fx or the real thing, but I always felt I couldn’t find the sweet spot when setting it up, the bit that really made me go “yeeeeah” know what I mean? Either way all I can recommend is getting a decent analoque preamp, but maybe keeping the axe fx as a great fx arsenal, we use laptops so we couldn’t justify keeping it, Sansamp PSA1 all the way hehe
Anyway, didn’t wanna trounce on your post, I guess I share the same pain 🙂
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VOLiTiANAlso, sorry quick addon, I’ve not played through an axe fx II yet, the specs look ummmm “improved” although how much you’ll actually use is another matter…. I would be keen to play through one just to see, but at over 2k, and considering things like guitar rig, revalver etc etc all controlled neatly by a cheap FCB1010 on a laptop that would be at most half the price of the fractal audio offering, I gotta wonder even if it’s doing a good job, does it really justify the cost? because using the laptop is practically infinitely times more configurable hehe
www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN
MouseClickDrummerOk, but I guarantee you AFX 1 was 2 thousand dollars better than Guitar Rig. I had it for a few months. And shaping tones was easier and more intuitive in the amp mods sections than with revalver which offers adjustments to millions of the amps guts which I had no idea what was supposed to do what because I am not an amp builder or electronic engineer. LOL. But yer Revalver amps to me sound alot more real than Guitar Rig 1-4. And I think Revalver is whey under-priced.
Revalver really is good (except I dont like most of the stock cabs but i guess we can import our own IRs like with the Axe FX). But I would still prefer real hardware with dedicated DSP because i dont like the idea of taking a laptop live… rackmounted hardware will rule the day for me.
But again, my choice is not in favor of revalver unless I wanted to use the 5150 or JSX.
VOLiTiANHi FarBeyond,
You kinda missed my point, I wasn’t saying GR5 or Amplitube or whatever were better, I was saying that the cost of a good analogue, preamp, a laptop and all the hardware, could easily be half the price of the Axe-fx, and with that in mind, using a laptop to process after the fact could actually yield more flexible options.
Think of all the stuff you could buy instead of the Axe FX….
Also with SSdrives on laptops they aren’t suffering live, like you might imagine.
www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN
MouseClickDrummerlaptop? huh? macbooks are expensive man… and all the various amp modeling software will add up to about a grand if you pick 3-4 to use.. also i dont do laptops anymore… only towers… my next computer is a mac pro. i had a lower end mac for a bit but this is besides the point… i am definetly not bringing a laptop for live usage…. i dont like the idea at all… its not a rugged road-tough setup. for me its all about rack gear and solid reliable hardware… . id rather even use a Pod X3…. and for even quicker response – the afx.
but the on a computer running amp software is still too latent. its not as fast as the rack dsps. and also, quality effects are just not there man.. id still at the end of the day end up running back out to my eventide h8000fw regardless…. so why not just keep everything dedicated in the rack?
but just think about it… if the afx2 is the real deal, then imagine like 70 amps exactly modeled…. the expensive setup and signal chain of amp to cab to mic to pre to processing recording chain exact…. (apparently the new afx2 is based off everything run into a neve whereas the previous one had a totally uncolored and flat pre model etc,) etc… plus the eventide-quality fx … if this is all true (and im not saying it is as i dont know) but if it is all true… then the afx 2 would be highly under-priced as you would be getting tens and tens of thousands of dollars worth of quality gear models in the unit modeled close enough to pass as the real thing.
and i dont want my computer doing anything but handling daw tasks….
guitardad AxeFX II is very good.I have one. great for fx. I also purchased Kemper Profiler amp. That is even better by far for raw guitar amp emulation.
Fractal added some blocks that match eq and are kind of cool. They do NOT however emphasize the gain quality like Kemper does.
Fractal seem to be adding updates to compete with Kemper fro raw amp sound. Problem is, the cab modeling IR’s are not quite the same imo. Kemper also has some pro studios making amp profile galore. Kind of like what Toontrack is doing with Kit add ons. IMO, and my usage, Kemper with the better profiles smoke teh AxeFX II.
If you like nice guitar amp tone I’d strongly go Kemper. If you want decent amp models with a plethora of effects then AxeII will serve you.
Another very good DAW VST option is Scuffham S Gear.
metal190No disrespect implied, but this sounds crazy. A “good” preamp, laptop and “all the hardware” for $1100? And SS drives, you say? There’s no way. Not to mention that just a preamp alone will sound like crap. You would also need a power amp, cab and mic or plan on modelling any number of those components (which again puts you back in the market for a modeller).
Farbeyond, listen to people who own or at least have spent considerable time with the gear you’re asking about. For me, the axe fx ii is the real deal. I agree with guitardad that the kemper is awesome. I don’t own own, but got to spend a ton of time with one on a couple different occasions. I kind of feel that you can’t go wrong here, although some of the added conveniences and perks of the axe fx ii tip the scale strongly for my personal application.
Anyway, best of luck to you.
ORIGINAL: VOLiTiAN
Hi FarBeyond,
You kinda missed my point, I wasn’t saying GR5 or Amplitube or whatever were better, I was saying that the cost of a good analogue, preamp, a laptop and all the hardware, could easily be half the price of the Axe-fx, and with that in mind, using a laptop to process after the fact could actually yield more flexible options.
Think of all the stuff you could buy instead of the Axe FX….
Also with SSdrives on laptops they aren’t suffering live, like you might imagine.
VOLiTiANIt’s pretty simple..
I’m basing it on the fact that the Axe-fx II is approx £2,000 (or $2000 or whatever currency really it’s purely for illustrating the point)
A laptop dedicated to the task can easily be bought for £300-400, I’m not keen on posting direct links as that seems a bit cheeky for the forum, but ebuyer has numerous laptops, dual core i5’s, half tera drives, 4gig ram etc all from £260 upto £400, there is a good selection on the low end, and they more than exceed the requirements to run a full project, let alone a few standalone instances of some plugins running real-time.
Then the pre-amp, apologies for any confusion but I mean the interface, i.e. a good way of ensuring the signal coming in from the guitar remains as clean as possible. For that single task you can get a very simple high quality interface. Focusrite do them from £100 upwards.
So we’re at say £600 max for a setup which can now not only produce tones (lets not forget about the huge library of free preamps, modellers, IR’s etc, some of which have actually been used in the Axefx firmware…) but we can also record our own music and can give me pretty much limitless instances of any routing i’d want, all still rendered digitally.
Now throw in something like a behringer FCB-1010 (approx £115) which gives you almost complete midi control of your laptop, (midi learn functions are almost second nature in alot of the amp sims) and I went for the UNO chip mod which helps flexibility even further (another £15 or so, 5 min install by hand), even chuck in a novation nocturn for £70
After that you could still even go and buy a few used items or new, a 2nd hand sansamp PSA1 goes for about £250 here in the uk for example.
All I’m saying is look at all the gear you can get for less than half the price of the Axe-Fx, for the rest of the money, you could buy an extra pair of handy reference speakers, say some PM1’s which are handy (around £350 a pair), a couple more monitors for your home DAW (2x 22″ @ £150 ea.), and still have money to burn on some random purchase of a vintage pedal you’ve always wanted to buy. I joke but you see where i’m going with this madness 🙂
The fact about having cabinets etc is moot due to the fact we were talking about modellers and guitar fx in general, even if you have an Axe-fx I think it’s still obvious you’d need an amp for live (aside from going direct to desk)
I’m not an Axe-fx hater, far from it, I think they’ve created a powerful unit dedicated to the task which can yield excellent results. I just feel that in this age where technology such as laptops are so readily available etc we can explore other potentially more cost effective, potentially more flexible options, surely it’s open to discussion.
For the record I’ve had extensive experience with a lot of the processors on the market Axe-fx included (but not the Axefx II, although doesn’t it feel more like an Axe-FX 1.5? anyway) but over time you begin to formulate which units have the best workflow and overall sound which works for you.
Regards
D.
www.myspace.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundclick.com/VOLiTiAN www.reverbnation.com/VOLiTiAN www.soundcloud.com/VOLiTiAN
Coryd I’m still using the Axe Ultra. I LOVE it!!! For me, recording amp/cab/mic setup just isn’t a possibility. The Axe Ultra does everything i need it to from distorted guitars to cleans, and has an amazing amount of fx as well.
I’ve heard that the Axe II is great, tho i have never used one. Either way they are a bit on the $$$, but for what you get to me it is well worth the money.
S2.3 NY Vol 2/Music City/Metal Foundry/Evil Drums/dfh Superior Claustrophobic/Electronic/Twisted Kit/Metal Machine
brendt allmanFarbeyond – the Axe FX2 MK2 is amazing if you are someone who likes to tweak with things. The stock sounds are pretty good, but once you get under the hood and become familiar with the unit, it really opens up a lot. The effects are top notch and the modeling is very good. The Boogie Mark V tones and Marshal Plexi 50 watt tones are worth the price to me all by themselves. This no POD….this s a very pro piece pf gear.
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