How to “really” work with MIDI grooves

Studio Corner
Viewing 10 replies - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
  • Whitten
    Participant

    I’m not sure if there are any reference works.
    Drumming is so subjective.
    Every player constructs their part differently, and often the songwriter and producer will have an input.
    It’s also highly dependent on the genre.
    A progressive rock or fusion drummer will play a lot more notes and with more variation than a mainstream pop drummer.
    horses for courses.
    My own tenet is ‘less is more’.
    I don’t regularly play jazz, fusion or progressive mind you.
    But for basic rock I would start out with a simple part that fits your needs.
    Keep it fairly simple throughout, but perhaps edit in changes when the music demands that you do.
    Again, my own personal approach is to tell the story of the song through the drums.
    like literature, there’s a beginning, a middle and an end.
    A simple construction therefore might be – groove 1 at the beginning, groove 1+ for the first chorus or second verse (to taste). groove 2 for the middle of the story (this is often a ‘middle 8’, ‘bridge’ or instrumental solo section), groove 1++ for the last chorus or outro.
    My little plus signs (+) might indicate a few more open hi-hat accents or a few ghost notes. A ++ (for the end chorus or outro) might indicate the verse groove but with a switch from hi-hat to ride cymbal.
    You are building the story of the song.
    My final comment is that drum programmers often make drum parts too detailed and over complicated.
    The top studio players will zone in on a drum part that works perfectly for the song (and blends with the bass for example) and only embellish it when necessary. A fill from verse into chorus might be as simple as an open hi-hat flick, or a little snare skip.
    The difference between the verse and chorus might simply be the difference between a tight closed hi-hat and a slightly more open hi-hat.

    Tom
    Participant

    You need Jamstix. Version 3 will be out shortly.
     
    Jamstix has its own rhythms, it can read midi files or you can program it. Then it add its own variations during groove, adds fills etc. It also has several modelled “drummers” playing different styles.
     
    Whereas I like Whitten’s drumming, the fact is I can just as easily start with Jamstix and get excellent results. I start by programming where I want kick and snare in the bars, then I let Jamstix add hats, cymbals and humanization. For fills I let it generate a fill, until one I like comes out.
     
    There are sliders and things for determining velocity, length of fills, components of fills etc … Jamstix has its own drums, but works fine with Superior too, although it takes some figuring out to set it up.
     
    As for support Jamstix is the only software I have where support is as good as you get it here with Toontrack (presence of developers). Maybe because Jamstix is basically a one-man products, I guess.

    jbraner
    Participant

    I’ve never used Jamstix – so have no opinion about it.

    All I’d say is that you can’t get much more “humanised” than the MIDI files already are. They’ve been played in by Chris (Whitten) and Nir-Z etc etc

    I rely on *this* to see how a real drummer would play a part…

    John Braner
    http://johnbraner.bandcamp.com
    http://www.soundclick.com/johnbraner
    and all the major streaming/download sites.
    -------------------------------------------------
    Reaper 7 x64 (latest version), Windows 11 Pro 64 bit, AMD Ryzen 3950x, 32GB RAM, MSI MAG X570 Tomahawk Wifi mobo (not using wifi though), NVIDIA GEForce GT710 video card, MOTU Ultralite AVB audio interface

    bvaughn
    Participant

    Thanks so much everyone for WONDERFUL information.

    I guess I was just a bit worried if I found a 2 measure MIDI file, and then copied/pasted it for an entire verse whether that would sound exactly like a real drummer.

    Thanks!
    Brandon

    Whitten
    Participant

    ORIGINAL: bvaughn
    I guess I was just a bit worried if I found a 2 measure MIDI file, and then copied/pasted it for an entire verse whether that would sound exactly like a real drummer.

    Pretty much.
    But if there is an opportunity to pick out a single moment in the bass part, or the vocal with a little drum edit, it’ll sound even more like a real drummer.
    Imagine the drummer is listening to the music, not repeating themselves like a machine.
    But don’t forget……. less is more.

    Greg
    Participant

    Awesome tips Chris.  Thanks for posting.  Was actually just listening to the first edie brickell album today

    Intel 13900K, Windows 11 , Cubase Pro 13.0.30, Studio One 6.2.1.64495, 64GB RAM, UA Apollo x4 and UA Apollo X8 Thunderbolt,, 64 sample buffer size, Radeon 570, 42″ 4k monitor

    MIDI controller: Roland A-37, Jamstik Studio, MCU Pro + expander
    Drum Brain: Yamaha DTX 900, RHH135 hihat, 2 crash and 1 ride cymbal, 4 toms.

    brandon flick
    Participant

    ORIGINAL: tombuur
    You need Jamstix. Version 3 will be out shortly.

    Ahoy fellow JS /superior combo user !
    Problem with JS is (for me ) the default kit mapping for superior 2 won’t play double hits written in JS editor- it just plays back single snare hit (D1)
    I’d be real interested if you could load up a couple double snare hits and see if they play correctly for you ( if so please tell me your secret ingredient )
    After investing in superior 2 -newyork kits -foundry , I’m hooked on the sounds /processing power/ live midi performance to the point that I’ll probably be using
    SD2 for most everything from here in . Problem is ive got piles of old JS songs i want to redo drum wise and this is a real show stopper
    That aside , JS is a very innovative program has really good support.

    Cheers !

    Tom
    Participant

    I have replied to the above question in a private email since this is a bit off–thread.

    Kip Count
    Participant

    Your play-by-play below is very helpful. Thanks so much for posting this.
    It’s made me realize I need to work less at making things over-complicated in order to sound more like a “real” drummer played the part.  Don’t get me wrong, I keep things relatively simple, but you now have me thinking more about accents rather than full-blown drum fills every time a transition comes around.  Thanks Chris.

    Kip

    ORIGINAL: Whitten

    I’m not sure if there are any reference works.
    Drumming is so subjective.
    Every player constructs their part differently, and often the songwriter and producer will have an input.
    It’s also highly dependent on the genre.
    A progressive rock or fusion drummer will play a lot more notes and with more variation than a mainstream pop drummer.
    horses for courses.
    My own tenet is ‘less is more’.
    I don’t regularly play jazz, fusion or progressive mind you.
    But for basic rock I would start out with a simple part that fits your needs.
    Keep it fairly simple throughout, but perhaps edit in changes when the music demands that you do.
    Again, my own personal approach is to tell the story of the song through the drums.
    like literature, there’s a beginning, a middle and an end.
    A simple construction therefore might be – groove 1 at the beginning, groove 1+ for the first chorus or second verse (to taste). groove 2 for the middle of the story (this is often a ‘middle 8’, ‘bridge’ or instrumental solo section), groove 1++ for the last chorus or outro.
    My little plus signs (+) might indicate a few more open hi-hat accents or a few ghost notes. A ++ (for the end chorus or outro) might indicate the verse groove but with a switch from hi-hat to ride cymbal.
    You are building the story of the song.
    My final comment is that drum programmers often make drum parts too detailed and over complicated.
    The top studio players will zone in on a drum part that works perfectly for the song (and blends with the bass for example) and only embellish it when necessary. A fill from verse into chorus might be as simple as an open hi-hat flick, or a little snare skip.
    The difference between the verse and chorus might simply be the difference between a tight closed hi-hat and a slightly more open hi-hat.

    Mac Mini M1 | Studio One 6 | PreSonus 68c | EZD3

    nexus77
    Participant

    I would love to know what your response was!  Is there a way around this issue?

Viewing 10 replies - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)

Please log in to read and reply to this topic.

No products in the cart.

×