Brynjar Hoff HelgetunNew topic started instead of polluting another topic, sorry about that.
This is primarily regarding the hihats in Metal Foundry, I am using open 5.
1: All my hihat hits are at 127, but there are still some barely audible hits scattered throughout. How do I get rid of these, or isn’t it possible? While recording today I hit the hihat hard as hell, and it sounded like someone was barely tickling it. All the hits came out at 127.
2: It sounds like the hihat is barely touched with the sticks even at maximum velocity…? Surely something must be off? This is in default mode, without any combined presets loaded or anything.
3: All hihat hits are supposed to be fully open, but some of them sounds like the hihat is almost closed, even if all the midi notes are the same. Am I missing a variable here? It sounds like on almost every other hit the hihat is almost closed. I mostly notice this phenomenon when the hihat is played at higher speeds.
Some insight would be appreciated.
New topic started instead of polluting another topic, sorry about that.
This is primarily regarding the hihats in Metal Foundry, I am using open 5.
1: All my hihat hits are at 127, but there are still some barely audible hits scattered throughout. How do I get rid of these, or isn’t it possible? While recording today I hit the hihat hard as hell, and it sounded like someone was barely tickling it. All the hits came out at 127.
2: It sounds like the hihat is barely touched with the sticks even at maximum velocity…? Surely something must be off? This is in default mode, without any combined presets loaded or anything.
3: All hihat hits are supposed to be fully open, but some of them sounds like the hihat is almost closed, even if all the midi notes are the same. Am I missing a variable here? It sounds like on almost every other hit the hihat is almost closed. I mostly notice this phenomenon when the hihat is played at higher speeds.
Some insight would be appreciated.
Damian BluntGeneral purpose 1 (or CC16) would control positional sensing on the snare in Superior 2……the other 2 are for the positional sensing on Ride and Toms which S2 does not utilize
Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting
JohnORIGINAL: grandaddy
General purpose 1 (or CC16) would control positional sensing on the snare in Superior 2
To quote a dear long time Forum member:
I knew that!!! I wuz jus’ testin ya’ll. And guess what? – You passed!
John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
Brynjar Hoff Helgetun Thanks tons for the help! I will remedy my tracks later today. The snare positioning effect is also something i’ve been meaning to ask about. Brilliant stuff.
Thanks again
I hit the hihat pretty hard, but maybe I can tighten it up even more. I’ll look into it.
Brynjar Hoff HelgetunORIGINAL: John
Since I switched for a Hart ECymbal II hihat, I haven’t had the same problems.
How is that one? I think the Roland hihat is very heavy and noisy, it feels very clunky and unresponsive. Is the Hart more easily playable? Is it just a matter of plugging it in?
Whitten I really don’t think you should hit the hi-hat hard.
It’s a bad thing on real drums and on an e-kit it is a wasted effort.
I find playing e-drums quite difficult actually, and tend to over hit them myself.
The best results are when you treat an e-kit differently to real drums, and play less hard, concentrating on accuracy.
I only had the TD20 for a short while, but found the hi-hat the hardest thing to dial in.
I ended up editing the foot control data quite a bit. I also ended up laying in to the hi-hat pads much less heavily and got better results straight away.
It’s something worth practicing.
As I said in a much earlier post, getting the hi-hats right (between Superior and the TD20) takes a bit of tweaking.
Brynjar Hoff Helgetun Yes, but I always keep it in the open position, so it’s only a matter of the feel I get from hitting it. It feels very heavy and dead, and I am always looking for items with a more natural feel. Nuances aren’t that important, as long as it sounds and feels like an open hihat would in real life.
And I try to hit everything the same way as I would a real kit, that’s the point. I will not adapt my playing to an E-kit more than absolutely necessary.
Rogueif you keep your HH open at all time then discard all CC04 as John stated. or delete the assignments for HatsCtrl – but this will affect the whole track and will reduce versatility. Alternatively you can create a x-drum just for that open HH and move the note in your sequence to 60 (don’t forget to clear HatsCtrl however).
I would also advise to dedicate a trigger to it, in which case the CC data will not be relevant at all.
… I must say that I am a bit puzzled about your requirements but if you need to hammer your hats like a cymbal that later advise is by far the best approach since that’s essentially what you’ll be doing, treating the Hats as nothing more than a splashy crash to drive the song.
Rogue Marechal - Toontrack
Configuration Manager
RogueI must say that I am a bit puzzled about your requirements
that said what I described above is more or less what we did for Dirk (Verbeuren) at the last tradeshow we demoed TMF although he wanted an Open hats on the right, which is of course also possible using x-drums.
Rogue Marechal - Toontrack
Configuration Manager
Brynjar Hoff HelgetunWell, I play death metal, and the hihat is not a thing of finesse. I just want a good sound from it, as close as possible to the real thing under those circumstances and with such playing. I thought the Metal Foundry at least would have that one covered. I think maybe it is now with the controller issue being out of the way, I’m just saying. It should be pretty straightforward getting a permanently open hihat to sound natural compared to one with all the nuances involving openness, tip/edge hits etc.
Ask any dedicated death metal drummer, and he/she will probably want a noisy hihat in the full open position most of the time.
ScottI would agree with Rogue. For your requirements, it seems like using the hatsctrl would not be the best thing for your situation. If there is no time you want anything but Open 5 sounds, then just clear your hatsctrl and the assign the ‘Open 5’ articulation only to your hats using the ‘Learn’ function.
Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor
Brynjar Hoff HelgetunActually, what I did was to assign the open 5 to the one note using the learn function, and it obviously registered the Hatsctrl anyway. I have now deleted all the hatsctrl stuff from my tracks, and it’s much better, they now sound like I want them to sound. By some gentle adjustments to the sensitivity on my TD-20 module I can dial in the sweet spot where I get the velocity I want straight away when playing from now on.
Good times. Thanks for the help
Whitten Just as an aside…..
All the live sound engineers and record producers I’ve worked with have hated super loud hi-hats.
They get in the snare mic and overheads and ruin the drum sound.
I’ve played plenty of loud, thrashy rock, and always try and balance the bass drum and snare to be louder than the hi-hats.
Even in Death Metal the hi-hats are not the most important sound on the kit.
Also, unfortunately to get the best out of e-drums you do have to adjust your technique.
I’m with you, it’s a pain in the a$$, but a sad fact.
In reality, you do not get any benefit from smashing the pads. Certainly not the same benefit you get with acoustic drums.
In fact in my experience you get less accuracy, double triggering problems and a sore wrist. You may also be shortening the life of your e-kit.
Brynjar Hoff Helgetun Not to be an idiot here, but sound engineers and producers do not judge what good sound is or not. If I want a loud and noisy hihat, I don’t care what they think about the issue. And for what is more important or not in death metal, that is not for you to decide either. I have been playing drums for over twenty years (E-drums for five), and I think I know what I want and like by now. My playing style requires a loud hihat, and I will have a loud hihat, even if some people thinks it’s not pleasant or “right”. I know I sound like an idiot again, but playing loud and thrashy rock is not exactly comparable to the sound needed for death metal with basically constant use of double kicks (which means the hihat will be open at all times).
And I still refuse to adjust my technique for E-drums. They are the substitute, not the other way around. It’s not like I am sitting here with 2B sticks and bangs on it like an idiot either. I just want to play it like I would a real kit, and get roughly the same response, and that does not require adjusting my technique, only adjusting the sensitivity of the pads. I am getting there, too.
Sorry, I got a bit carried away there. My point is that good sound usually means totally different things to different people, and that is especially true for extreme metal music.
WhittenORIGINAL: santa claus
Not to be an idiot here, but sound engineers and producers do not judge what good sound is or not.
OK, I beg to differ.
http://www.faderwear.com/guides/aggressivedrums/drummer.shtml
http://www.faderwear.com/guides/aggressivedrums/cymbals.shtml
But it’s your prerogative. Just trying to help with some advice hard won.
No problem.
Brynjar Hoff Helgetun I agree with the points posted in the links, but I will again stress that it’s the musician who decides what good sound is when he pays someone to record and mix. What is good sound in one music style is often totally unsuitable in another. This especially goes for extreme music, where it’s often more desirable to get a natural yet chaotic sound, too much polish is often not wanted at all.
This is always a problem when sound engineers not used to the demands of extreme music makes it too clinical, tame and “perfect”.
Just to clarify on the hihat issue, it’s not that I necessarily want a loud hihat, but one which makes a lot of sound. There’s a difference.
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