Hihat issues

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

New topic started instead of polluting another topic, sorry about that.

This is primarily regarding the hihats in Metal Foundry, I am using open 5.

1: All my hihat hits are at 127, but there are still some barely audible hits scattered throughout. How do I get rid of these, or isn’t it possible? While recording today I hit the hihat hard as hell, and it sounded like someone was barely tickling it. All the hits came out at 127.

2: It sounds like the hihat is barely touched with the sticks even at maximum velocity…? Surely something must be off? This is in default mode, without any combined presets loaded or anything.

3: All hihat hits are supposed to be fully open, but some of them sounds like the hihat is almost closed, even if all the midi notes are the same. Am I missing a variable here? It sounds like on almost every other hit the hihat is almost closed. I mostly notice this phenomenon when the hihat is played at higher speeds.

Some insight would be appreciated.

Topic

[Scott]

You’re going to have to post a link to an audio file for us to hear what your issue is.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

ORIGINAL: Scott

You’re going to have to post a link to an audio file for us to hear what your issue is.

All right, I can solo the hihats tomorrow and post a link here.

[John]

If you select the Hihat and then the Open 5 Articulation in the Instrument section, how does it sound when you either click the Hihat in the Interface or the preview pad at the upper part?
Does it sound as it should and not like what you’re describing, you have some kind of triggering troubles and/or input transforming going on in your host.

Best Regards,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

Yeah, I’ve thought about it being some invisible thing going on, I just can’t think of what it could be. I generally record with a Roland TD-20 kit, where I use the hihat fully open always. I’ll see if I can get a sound sample going today.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

All right, here is a file with an example of the #3 in my first post, with some hits sounding like the hihat is almost closed.

http://www.easy-share.com/1906350596/Hihat issue.wma

[Damian Blunt]

From your sample I’m guessing these may be problems with you TD-20 hats…..If the spring on your hat stand is not adjusted tight enough hitting the hat hard can move the control mechanism on the VH-12 (or VH-11) into the adjacent more closed level (or even more than one level) before it springs back causing unwanted transmuting.

The other problem with the Vh-12 is that it can generate spurious chick sounds at certain levels of openness, again producing unwanted shortening of sounds …..I have created an input transformer filter in cubase to get rid of these which has been very effective……I see you are using protools – I’m not sure if the same thing is possible in your host.

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

But how would these things appear in the midi track? There is nothing there except notes on one key, all with a velocity of 127.

And the problem hasn’t been there earlier with the Avatar hats.

Edit: oh, and the spring on my hihat stand is plenty tight.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

I also notice that when I play back the part, the same notes always gets the closed treatment. However, if I click the midi note, the correct sound is produced, so it’s only a problem during playback.

[Damian Blunt]

Did you record this with your TD-20?…..If so the CC data will be recorded from your TD-20 which will recreate the performance exactly – together with the bits you don’t want. Another thing to remember with Metal Foundry is that there are more degrees of openness so the chances of the hihats moving to adjacent layers when you hits your hats hard is higher.

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

So where is this TD-20 hihat specific data stored in the midi track? It gotta show up somewhere? I thought the other levels of openness had their own notes? I thought S2.0 only gets key “XX”, velocity “127” etc? Where is this buried info hidden?

[Damian Blunt]

I don’t know about protools I’m afraid….

If you are using edrums all the hihat notes your TD-20 sends should be allocated to hatsTrig or hatstipTrig in Superior 2 . If you are using one of the edrum MIDI presets this will be done for you. CC4 then controls the openness of the hats.

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
Quality Assurance
Betatesting

[John]

Hi,

please send the Pro Tools .ptf file where this only on playback weirdness takes place to support toontrack • com referring to this thread, so I may take a look at it.

Best Regards,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Whitten]

In Pro Tools you go to the left hand track column. There you can select ‘notes’ or ‘velocity’, but also controller. So you should select foot control and have a look at the data on the track.
As an aside, having just used a TD20 with Superior, I can’t say I liked the sound of hi-hats at 127.
You can create a wash of swishy hi-hats at any velocity, and the hats at 127 sound hard and unbalanced (with the rest of the kit) to me.

[Brynjar Hoff Helgetun]

ORIGINAL: Whitten

In Pro Tools you go to the left hand track column. There you can select ‘notes’ or ‘velocity’, but also controller. So you should select foot control and have a look at the data on the track.
As an aside, having just used a TD20 with Superior, I can’t say I liked the sound of hi-hats at 127.
You can create a wash of swishy hi-hats at any velocity, and the hats at 127 sound hard and unbalanced (with the rest of the kit) to me.

Yeah, I am adjusting my hats to fit my style, so every hit doesn’t come out as 127 anymore.

I’ll try that tip first thing in the morning tomorrow, man. Thanks.

[John]

Hi,

if you look at the attached screen grab, you will see the jerky foot controller movements causing your issue.
Check this yourself by following Mr. Whitten’s advice above to view CC4, foot controller.
Delete this portion and play back. Or draw a curve with the Pencil Tool that fits your playing better.

My guess is you’re having the same problem as I had with my VH-11 – I hit pretty hard when I play (I’m not really a drummer), thus causing the controller to move as if I had my foot moving quickly up and down.
Since I switched for a Hart ECymbal II hihat, I haven’t had the same problems.
An alternative is to have your hihat pad/cymbal separate from your foot controller.

BTW, I saw you had General purpose #1, #2 and #3 controller data going on as well (as in being sent from your module) on your MIDI Track but these should have no impact on the MIDI played back. You can Filter these out if you wish in Pro Tools.

Best Regards,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Author]

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