Hi-Hat controller issue (always plays "open" on the first hit)

[asurgey]

Hi I’m loving EZ drummer 2.0 but having a slight issue – I’m using it in Ableton Live 10.

It seems like the hi-hat does not register as closed on the first hit after closing it. Instead it play a kind of “choked” open sound

I think the person on the forum here had the same issue: https://www.toontrack.com/forums/topic/hihat-foot-control/

But the foot control will not work when starting with the closed hi hat, and will always play the hi hat open

My kit is Yamaha DTX700 so definitely supports a gradual hi-hat controller opening and closing (rather than on/off closing)

I have tried the different curve settings for open and closed HH controller but the issue doesn’t seem to be that.

Any help/ideas appreciated:)

Topic

[John]

Hi,

are you using the Yamaha MIDI Preset in EZdrummer 2 to trigger?

I am pretty certain what you are experiencing is due to the wrong notes are being triggered in EZdrummer 2.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[asurgey]

Hi thanks for the reply, yes I am using Yamaha MIDI preset. I will load it up now and have a look. If it is the wrong notes being triggered even with the Yamaha preset on, is it possible to change? I have not found a way (aside from selecting MIDI preset) to change individual triggers

 

Thankyou:)

[asurgey]

John wrote:

Hi,

are you using the Yamaha MIDI Preset in EZdrummer 2 to trigger?

I am pretty certain what you are experiencing is due to the wrong notes are being triggered in EZdrummer 2.

BR,
John

Ok I think I have found the problem, you are right. It seems like both the Hi hat controller pedal AND hitting the open hi hat are both coming through as MIDI note CC04. I’m not sure how to change the “open” hit on the hi hat to the a different MIDI note?

Does this need to be done in EZ drummer, can it be done in Ableton that I’m using it with?

EDIT: I have found the issue, there was no issue with mapping but rather my Hi-Hat controller was too tight on the module, so that any open hi hat hit was pushing the kick pedal down slightly and therefore triggering hi-hat close every time.

 

Thanks for help:)

• This post was modified 4 years, 7 months ago by asurgey.

[John]

OK, great to hear you solved it!

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[asurgey]

John wrote:

OK, great to hear you solved it!

Oh dear seems I actually haven’t solved it as I thought I had : /

Basically what is happening is as I hit the hit hat it is pushing my pedal down and registering as CC04 (closing hi-hat controller) on EZ drummer.

 

I don’t really see how this can be avoided since it’s part of the mechanism of the hi-hat pedal. Any downward force on the hit hat cymbal itself pushes the whole stand and therefore the connected pedal downwards slightly, and this is being registered as me closing the hi hat. THis is really messing with anything I play on the hi-hat, sometimes choking an open hi hat

 

What I don’t understand is that I don’t have this issue at all within the Yamaha module itself, it doesn’t detect those small downward movements as closing the hi hat, whereas EZ drummer does.

I have tried all the curve options in EZ drummer.

 

I don’t think that changing the MIDI note within my module would solve this one since it’s not triggering the wrong not in this case

 

Any ideas/help would be greatly appreciated, cheers

 

 

[John]

Well, I too had the problem with my hits being too hard for my HH controller (I had a Roland VH-11) and I ended up getting a Hart Pro EPedal II HH, which solved it for me.
Any kind of set up with a pad that’s separated from the pedal clutch, meaning the hits have no way to affect the pedal position would also help when you hit hard.

If getting another HH setup is not on the table, I would check if there is a “resolution” parameter for the Pedal CC in your module that can be set to high or low and try the lower. Would you consider upgrading to SD3, there are a lot of parameters available for tweaking for E-drummers, like the CC Curve for the Hi-Hat.

I can imagine why you do not have problems with the module’s internal sounds is that there is no, or limited, transmuting between different stages of openness, whereas with EZD2 (and SD3) you can hit a fully open Hi-Hat and hear it close while you lower the pedal or vice versa.

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[asurgey]

John wrote:

Well, I too had the problem with my hits being too hard for my HH controller (I had a Roland VH-11) and I ended up getting a Hart Pro EPedal II HH, which solved it for me.
Any kind of set up with a pad that’s separated from the pedal clutch, meaning the hits have no way to affect the pedal position would also help when you hit hard.

If getting another HH setup is not on the table, I would check if there is a “resolution” parameter for the Pedal CC in your module that can be set to high or low and try the lower. Would you consider upgrading to SD3, there are a lot of parameters available for tweaking for E-drummers, like the CC Curve for the Hi-Hat.

I can imagine why you do not have problems with the module’s internal sounds is that there is no, or limited, transmuting between different stages of openness, whereas with EZD2 (and SD3) you can hit a fully open Hi-Hat and hear it close while you lower the pedal or vice versa.

BR,
John

Thanks a lot. I will try to have a mess around with settings. I’m not 100% sure about “resolution” or what that would mean, I couldn’t find anything about that in the manual (It’s a Yamaha DTX700)

 

Thanks for your help:)

1

Thanked by: John

[Andrew Lao]

John wrote:

Well, I too had the problem with my hits being too hard for my HH controller (I had a Roland VH-11) and I ended up getting a Hart Pro EPedal II HH, which solved it for me.
Any kind of set up with a pad that’s separated from the pedal clutch, meaning the hits have no way to affect the pedal position would also help when you hit hard.

If getting another HH setup is not on the table, I would check if there is a “resolution” parameter for the Pedal CC in your module that can be set to high or low and try the lower. Would you consider upgrading to SD3, there are a lot of parameters available for tweaking for E-drummers, like the CC Curve for the Hi-Hat.

I can imagine why you do not have problems with the module’s internal sounds is that there is no, or limited, transmuting between different stages of openness, whereas with EZD2 (and SD3) you can hit a fully open Hi-Hat and hear it close while you lower the pedal or vice versa.

BR,
John

I know this post is a little older, but I just picked up a Roland TD27KV with SD3 and am having the same issue. Possible to walk me through the parameter changes so the HH registers a closed hit when I’m pressing down on the HH pedal and I’m hitting the edge? Thanks!

[John]

Hi Andrew,

have you started with Enabling and selecting the Roland TD27 Preset on the MIDI In/E-drums settings page?

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Andrew Lao]

Yep. I have the TD27 selected as my preset.

[John]

OK,

is the module @Factory settings when it comes to note assignments?
Do you have a Pedal Resolution parameter in this module? If so, I believe it should be set to HIGH.

On the Preset page, you can not only check and edit the note mapping but also the CC thresholds for openness.
You can also edit the transition behaviour, the Splash sensitivity and the Max and Min CC values.
The most important notes sent from your module are the three Edge Trigger, Tip Trigger and Closed Pedal notes (IIRC 22, 42 & 44).
These along with CC determines which articulation is played back.

Does this info help you?

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Andrew Lao]

John wrote:

OK,

is the module @Factory settings when it comes to note assignments?
Do you have a Pedal Resolution parameter in this module? If so, I believe it should be set to HIGH.

On the Preset page, you can not only check and edit the note mapping but also the CC thresholds for openness.
You can also edit the transition behaviour, the Splash sensitivity and the Max and Min CC values.
The most important notes sent from your module are the three Edge Trigger, Tip Trigger and Closed Pedal notes (IIRC 22, 42 & 44).
These along with CC determines which articulation is played back.

Does this info help you?

BR,
John

Thanks for all the helpful info. I calibrated the hibhat and it recognize the open/close thresholds. It’s working so far!

[Author]

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