Heavy Guitar Tone

[Dingo]

Ok, so I thought I’d post a short thread on...

Ok,

so I thought I’d post a short thread on this that anyone can contribute to. There’s a number of ways to get a big tone, here’s a couple tricks.

* Record your guitar part then double track it (record the same part again on another channel) Pan one hard left and the other hard right.

* Once you’ve recorded your guitar parts have a listen to which parts you want to sound super meaty. If you’ve recorded in say, standard tuning – you can tune your guitar down to C and play those parts in a lower octave and layer them underneath for extra body.

* Another thing you can do is record your parts with 1 amp setting then record your double track (or second guitar) with a totally different setting so there’s no conflicting sounds. If you want to get real fancy you could even use a different head & cab if you have them.

* Pitch pedals, setting them to an octave lower.

* Slight chorus effect makes guitars stand out.

* Short Delays 0 – 22ms

* Octave pedals – works really well playing single notes.

Hope some of that helps, as far as EQ & compression settings go just use your ears it all varys depending on what sound you’re going for.

Regards, Marcus.

Ok,

so I thought I’d post a short thread on this that anyone can contribute to. There’s a number of ways to get a big tone, here’s a couple tricks.

* Record your guitar part then double track it (record the same part again on another channel) Pan one hard left and the other hard right.

* Once you’ve recorded your guitar parts have a listen to which parts you want to sound super meaty. If you’ve recorded in say, standard tuning – you can tune your guitar down to C and play those parts in a lower octave and layer them underneath for extra body.

* Another thing you can do is record your parts with 1 amp setting then record your double track (or second guitar) with a totally different setting so there’s no conflicting sounds. If you want to get real fancy you could even use a different head & cab if you have them.

* Pitch pedals, setting them to an octave lower.

* Slight chorus effect makes guitars stand out.

* Short Delays 0 – 22ms

* Octave pedals – works really well playing single notes.

Hope some of that helps, as far as EQ & compression settings go just use your ears it all varys depending on what sound you’re going for.

Regards, Marcus.

Topic

[Juicy]

One cool trick is to use your Wah in a static position and not use as a wah-wah so much but as a Rad frequency & madness boost.
Actually voicing parts differently on the fretboard to fill the spectrum with more wider range from more notes or just different strings on the same note ,this needs a skilled player who is competent playing more difficult positions .
>edit<
If you shift the Wah just a tiny bit for a double track that can be quite interesting i should add.

[stubsound]

My question about this is simple is it ok to just clone the first guitar take, or is it a must to actually record 4 tracks of the same thing with actual playing? Can you say use a quick delay and cab effects to create the desired sound?

No, it’s not ok to copy tracks. You have to put some effort into it. Unique recording – unique sound.

Stig-R. Eliassen

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[BigJguitar]

LOl you calling me lazy bro??? Effort isnt the issue, Im just curious that on some stuff is it or is it not actually quad tracking or maybe dual tracking and cloning. It seems to me people have some of their own variations on this. More input pls

http://www.reverbnation.com/jasonhanerfeld

[Scott]

When I double/triple/quadruple tracks, it is always done by playing the part again and not copy/pasting (or having the client play if I’m not the guitarist). I usually do different combos of amp/guitars/mic/mic pre so the doubled parts compliment each other.

For example, I may select a Les Paul and Marshall combo for the part. Perhaps mic it with an SM57 fed to a UA2108 preamp. Then I’ll double it using a Strat and a Vox amp mic’ed with a 421 fed to an LA-610 preamp. So the Les Paul has a beefy sound and the Strat is a bit thinner. They compliment each other well.

The resulting double is far superior to copy/paste. It provides a ‘fattening’ sound that doesn’t have any ‘phasing’ artifacts. A straight copy/paste would result in only a volume increase anyway. It really wouldn’t sound ‘doubled’…just double loud. If the copy/pasted part is time slipped to increase the ‘double’ sound, the result may have phasing problems the could result in the part totally disappearing when listened in mono.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Juicy]

Yes thats the Classic way to do it Scott.A Gretsch and Strat can also be a nice Combo.
My Favourite players pull emotion from there Playing and Tone usually with little or no fx ,but everything has a time and place.
Mono Compatibility is certainly a trap for young players.

[godprobe]

A good reason you might plan on *not* using separate takes is if you intend to pull it off live with only one guitarist and no backing track.
I’m lucky enough to have an Axe-Fx and so my first thought would be to run through two different amp sims, with one slightly delayed — if that doesn’t get me the results I want, there’s any number of other slight changes to the sound I could make to the second channel.  No matter what though, it won’t sound *quite* like actual double/quad/etc-tracking.

WinXP | Fireface 800 | Variax | Axe-Fx | Toontrack | Komplete | Reaper http://www.godprobe.com/projects/notemaps/

[Dingo]

ORIGINAL: BigJguitar

if you quad track your rythm guitars so basically 2 tracks hard left and 2 tracks hard right, you get a massive tone. Just make sure you can play to a click track and that all 4 tracks are played exactly the same and on time.

My question about this is simple is it ok to just clone the first guitar take, or is it a must to actually record 4 tracks of the same thing with actual playing? Can you say use a quick delay and cab effects to create the desired sound?

The guys have answered this question above.

But if you’re stuck with only 1 guitar part and need to thicken it you could copy it add a single band EQ on each guitar track. Use a High Pass filter on one and a Low Pass filter on the other the find a nice cross over point between the two and you can get quite a nice sound.

Also sending a bus with delay settings of 0 – 50ms (at the most) will make it sound thicker as you ear cant hear the two sounds separately. If you push it more than that you’ll start to hear the delay.

Regards, Marcus.

[Marcus Soares]

My 2 cents:

Although there are some “save practices” to get your sound right on the mixing stage, nothing will help if you don’t get it right from the source. So here are some good guidelines:

1) Get a nice resonating solid body guitar, like a Les Paul with classic ’57 or a Strat with EMG81, with a new set of strings(the thickest gauge your tuning choice allows).

2) Work your parts hard and play tight. Always check tuning and guitar intonation before recording(or else you will cry when trying to double/mix it later).

3) Put a nice DI(Radial passive) to split signal: 1 to the amp for recording purposes + 1 DI for the “guitar star” to tweak and play with in the control room

4) go with nothing less than a 100w head(JCM 800, 5150, etc.) into a 4 x 12 cab(with G12-75s or V30s). Gain and volume(s) at max, EQs at 12:00 except highs at 12:10(your mixing engineer will thank you for that, believe me!).

5) DON’T USE PEDAL EFFECTS BEFORE YOUR AMPS! If you need any effect which is inherent to your sound, you should use studio quality gear on the mixing stage to preserve your signal strength(your mixing engineer will thank you for that too!)

6) Use your ears to find the loudest of the 4 speakers(there’s always one), mic it with SM57s and/or MD421s: one on axis slight to the side of the cap(bite) and another off axis pointing to side of the cone(thickness), both the closest possible to cab’s grill.

7) Always check for phases issues and remember the “3:1 rule”.

8) Double your parts by playing again with a different configuration(see options in 1, 3 and 4).

9) Send the mics to a Neve 1073 and record in your media of choice(Tape Recorder if possible).

10) You will end up with 4 tracks of guitar: pan each pair of mics hard left/right, balancing bite(your basic sound) with thickness(to add character).

11) Finally, when chasing your sound, remember that a recorded guitar part played alone doesn’t tell the hole truth and it probably will no sound as good as when it’s mixed.

Of course there are probably hundreds of variations of that the same signal flow, but this is the “go to” formula of all respected sound engineers and producers that I know and respect.

see ya

[BigJguitar]

Ok so I have been messin around with some new pieces where Im doubling guitars and even Quading tracks, some with just a difference in pick ups and some with total reamping and effects and its sounds awesome.

remember that a recorded guitar part played alone doesn’t tell the hole truth and it probably will no sound as good as when it’s mixed

I dont know how I feel about this… lol all of my tunes have had 1 rythm and 1 lead track and they kick ass. I do agree however, that if I had multitracked guitar parts it would have push the music more forward.

http://www.reverbnation.com/jasonhanerfeld

[Marcus Soares]

I dont know how I feel about this… lol all of my tunes have had 1 rythm and 1 lead track and they kick ass. I do agree however, that if I had multitracked guitar parts it would have push the music more forward.

There’s nothing wrong about not doubling your guitar parts, specially if you are satisfied with the results. But it won’t have as much thickness as a doubled one, which is crucial in a heavy guitar sound, IMHO. And the more “heavy” is the music you’re playing, the greater that difference will be, specially when comparing with commercial releases, where doubling is a common practice.

[Juicy]

I hear you Fishbone.Theres a time and place to use all methods.Less is More ….
Quad tracking ?
Great for making an illusion of bigness but too blurry if not done right.Sometime that blurry mystery is what people are seeking i guess,
When done extremely well obviously it will achieve a vibe,the wall of sound,but if you want nuance and articulation it must be done with caution.Depending on what playback systems you want your music to work on i would also urge people to always check the Mono of their big stereo extravaganza.
If you can get separation and build valid depth,tone and thickness that works well in Mono ,you’ll be well on your way to greatness plus the stereo will be a excellent extension rather than the mono just collapsing and imploding from reckless phasing issues and missed frequency masking at mix or even tracking.
You may say “who cares” about how it sounds in mono but you would be missing the greatest challenge of clarity plus one day you’ll be listening on some warped playback system and more than half of you mix will be gone ?
I mix for radio and t.v as well as surround an soon realised simple volume and clarity and critical mono compatibility was my main aim.

[Marcus Soares]

Hi Juicy,

Yes, check for mono compatibility is important in any audio work. Although I hadn’t mentioned it specifically, it’s a good way to check for phase issues that I’ve mentioned in #7 of my tips.

Besides, there’s a bunch of “perspectives” that can be considered/adopted when we’re generally talking about “getting a heavy guitar sound”: guitarist, producer, audio engineer and listeners, all will have very different ways of looking/approaching the same question. My tips were from a sound engineer perspective for a commercial release, and it’s based in the common practices adopted in professional recording studios.

But can a guitarist in his project studio(or bedroom) get a “heavy git sound” without even care about the record process? Sure he can! But can he preserve the integrity of that sound throughout the recording process of a commercial release without consider the technical aspects involved? Probably not!

I have some nice amp simulations with presets that I use often when I’m working on a guitar riff or song idea, that can blow the Heaviest minds out there, but I would never use it when I want to lay down some tracks for a record(except for the sake of the “guitar star” happiness in the control room, of course ).

see ya

[Author]

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