Final Bounce is so frustrting

[tonyparis9]

Anyone, anyone?? Real simple..here we go – I have great mix going through the mixer. All I want to do is bounce EXACTLY what I hear to separate audio files so I can import to Logic! That’s it – I have spent an entire week on various bounce methods and the results are – what was at the mixer no way relates to the outputed files or I would get only the bleeds bounced. I even tried the lame L+ R stereo mix and that again did NOT sound anything like what I hear at the mixer location..
HELP..>GOING insane loosing a ton of time , $$$ and my sanity -If you do not have a simple solution don”t bother posting – I’d rather stick to the manual edit
TP

Topic

[John]

Hi,

what if you Bounce through the Mixer but set each Fader to its own output?

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[nigel smith]

the master compressor on the main buss output has been choked since high sierra update go to master and open up the gate / gain in compressor . worked for me

[jake123_1]

@John said:
Hi,

what if you Bounce through the Mixer but set each Fader to its own output?

BR,
John  

I’m having the same issue, I want to get the exact sound I have in superior drummer with effects bounced down. I’m new to this, would you be able to explain how to do this?

[ColdSteel_1]

Maybe you only want to go to the second or “advanced” page after you click on Bounce. I think putting a check mark on the first item there will switch the bounce operation to mix all of the channels including effects into a single stereo track that will be called track-1 or similar.

I’m guessing that if that were the default bounce mode a lot of confusion and frustration could be avoided.

[John]

Well, if you do not want to Bounce per microphone, pre-mixer, you can only Bounce per Mixer output.
The logic is pretty simple; e.g. your standard mixer setup would be more than 1 microphone for Kick and Snare, right?
These mic faders, with perhaps EQ and Comp on each, would most likely be Bussed to a Sub group Bus with additional processing before being routed to the Master Fader and output. The Master Fader perhaps also has some kind of processing to add to the final sound. This Master Fader processing will react differently if there is a lot of instruments hitting it than if you solo e.g. the Snare.
So, when you Bounce and want your EQ, Filters, Compression, Saturation, etc. on an instrument, the most logical thing would be to Bounce at the end of the chain, right?
Bouncing per fader or even at the Sub group Bus would not yield the same audible result as Bouncing the Output in this scenario. Perhaps you are also Sending to an FX Bus, like a Reverb?
Then you either route this Reverb Bus to the Master or a separate output.
So, route all faders and/or Busses you wish to have as separate Audio files to their own Output in the SD3 Mixer before you Bounce.
I would also rename the Output Faders to what is Bussed there, e.g. Kick, Snare, etc. This will also make it easier to know what’s what when you have Bounced, since the file name then will be something like ‘Out_Kick’, ‘Out_Snare’, etc.

I hope this clarifies,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Roy Parker]

Just to verify something. If I was to switch from stereo to multi-channel, any FX on the output bus 1-2 will only apply to whatever is going to end up going through bus 1-2. This has not always been the case, has it? I swear I’ve not run into this in the 2.X versions. It sounds obvious and matches reality, but then getting a multi-channel output bounce to match a stereo bounce becomes a nightmare.

I tackled the issue like this on a small bit I was doing. The SD3 preset had lots of outbus FX going on.
#1: Saved each bus 1-2 effect as a user preset.
#2: Created a new group bus.
#3: Instantiated a copy of each plug on the new bus, setting each one to it’s preset I had just saved.
#4: Ran post-fader sends from the rest of the buses to this new bus.
#5: Selected multi-channel and assigned the buses to the out-buses accordingly.
#6: Muted the plugins that were left in bus 1-2 (used with the stereo output)
#7: I tracked the outputs, including the new effects bus, in my DAW to respective channels.

I compared the output from a Stereo “bounce” I had done and the new multi-channel. It was very close. I ended up lowering the volume of the new FX bus I created on the multi-channel outputs by Something like 4-6db. After the bounce, an additional 1.2db narrowed what was left of the gap. A large part of this SD3 kit preset came from the master out-bus FX as seen in the stereo mode.

I hope that I have missed some sort of obvious functionality somewhere or that my workaround can help someone.

[John]

Hi,

if you use an FX Bus, it is also routed to an output, which has to be set to a mixer output that either is on it’s own or included in another output.
If you have a compressor and/or limiter on a Stereo Output, where all your audio is going through, it is bound to behave and sound different when you split your outputs for separation and there’s only, e.g. a Snare going through a copy of the same compressor/limiter.

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Henrik]

To add to John’s answer: the bounce options has been the same in Superior Drummer 2 – it’s just the interface that’s new in that section.

Henrik Ekblom - User Experience Designer
Toontrack

[Roy Parker]

@John said:
Hi,

if you use an FX Bus, it is also routed to an output, which has to be set to a mixer output that either is on it’s own or included in another output.
If you have a compressor and/or limiter on a Stereo Output, where all your audio is going through, it is bound to behave and sound different when you split your outputs for separation and there’s only, e.g. a Snare going through a copy of the same compressor/limiter.  

Indeed, the levels being sent to the new FX Output Bus (via POST-fader sends to the newly created FX mix-bus) would have to match the levels being sent to the original stereo output bus. I would never suggest to blend it with another output. That’s already happening by default on the 1-2 bus when switching to multi-out. As you stated, the new “FX” output bus has to be on it’s own with the rest of the output buses.

One other layer of complexity in the level of mix buses prior to the output buses. Any buses used via sends would also have to have it’s own post-fader routing back into this new FX output bus as well. After all, their outputs are running through the main stereo output’s effects. It sounds complicated, but in reality, is simply a matter of repeating what you’ve done on the other mix buses already.

The levels in the new FX Mix Bus *should* sum up to be the same as when using the stereo version. Once inside the DAW, I obviously sum the multi-out tracks to my “drum kit” group bus. This group’s volume is louder than the stereo version of the SD3 output. If I lower my drum kit bus inside my DAW to match the stereo output track from printing a stereo out version from SD3, I find that the characteristics that were the direct result of the effects in the main output inside SD3 remain in place. It is VERY close. Not just similar in nature.

A/B testing (in and out of the song’s mix context) for all the nuances produces remarkably little. What I do not remember from the last effort was if I found it better, at least in part, to adjust the new FX output channel’s fader in the DAW separately from the rest of the tracks or not. Once I go into multi-track mode, it is not summed in the sam manner as if being summed as part of a stereo bus inside SD3. Then again, that would b the same as if there were never any effects in the output bus to begin with. All that A/B matching sort of becomes a non-factor after getting to a certain point. The same level of differences will exist when comparing multi-out to stereo out regardless of whether or not there were effects in the stereo out-bus or not. Maybe a sort of natural compression going on with everything in the same bus depends on when that sum happens? I dunno. Way above my head at this point.

FWIW, I do “record” the output rather than bounce using the SD3 functionality,but that’s just because I find it quicker and easier to do so.

[Luca Albini]

Hi, thanks for sharing those informations! Very informative! I have a couple of question if someone can answer:

1) There will be a difference in audio bouncing Superior Drummer 3 from Pro Tools hd in a 48 khz 24 bit project against doing the same thing from Logic in a 48khz 24 bit project against doing the same thing in stand alone in 44khz 24 bit? Or the audio in all 3 cases would be perfectly the same because Superior uses its own algoritm with no connection with the daw algoritm?

I ask this because I have Pro Tools hd 10 that is 32 bit daw and my projects are 48 khz 24 bit and Superior Drummer 3 works only in 64 bit daw,

so in order to import to Pro Tools the separated audio tracks in 48khz 24 bit without conversion would be to bounce Superior from Logic (64 bit) in a 48khz 24 bit project and then import the tracks in Pro Tools without conversion, cause if I bounce from stand alone application I only can work in 44.1 khz 24bit

is this correct or there’s a better way to do it?

 

2) Could I use Pro Tools First to bounce the separated tracks in 48khz 24 bit or I must buy Hdx?

Thanks in advance for the kind answers!

Luke

[John]

Hi,

 

1. there shouldn’t be when it comes down to the raw drum sounds but if you’re using the EQ’s and FX, I can’t say bouncing @44,1 and @48 will null out.
2. I don’t think Pro Tools First lets you use 3rd party Virtual Instruments.

 

You should be able to set your audio card/interface’s sample rate to 48kHz before launching SD3 and then this is the working sample rate for SD3 when Bouncing.

 

BR,

John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Luca Albini]

1. there shouldn’t be when it comes down to the raw drum sounds but if you’re using the EQ’s and FX, I can’t say bouncing @44,1 and @48 will null out.

 

So the best way to bounce using EQ’s and FX would be to do it in a 44.1 khz 24 bit project to maintain the exact sound right?

 

or

 

bounce from the daw in 48khz 24 bit only the raw drums without EQ’s and FX and try to replicate the processed sound of the Superior preset with the daw plug ins right?

 

Luke

[John]

No,

 

I rather meant that you keep the sample rate @48kHz whether you work standalone, in Logic or Pro Tools.

 

BR,

John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Sam Santos]

is there any future updates where a each channel can have a “post” direct out, that will bounce each channel with its added plugins? It doesn’t make sense to set your sound up in the mixer window, if then, when  you bounce out, you have to recreate everything back in the DAW. I want to slap a preset on my drums, program the song and bounce out my drums with that same killer sound in no time. Until then… I guess I will have to use a stereo mix of drums, or will have to solo each mixer channel and bounce every part individually.

[John]

Hi Sam,

if you want to have each channel in the mixer on its own audio file but with EQ/Comp/FX inserted on the strip, I’d say the best way is to route each mixer channel directly to an output, panning e.g. Kick In hard left and Kick Out to Output 1+2, Snare Bottom hard left and Snare Top hard right to Output 3+4, etc. Of course it depends on which library you are using but this is just an example.
Then you can Split Stereo files into L+R on the Advanced tab when you Bounce.

 

BR,

John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

2

Thanked by: Sam Santos and Roy Parker

[Author]

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