Feedback and feature Request Superior Drummer 3

[Thomas Weishäupl]

I absolutely love Superior Drummer 3 … all around it is just amazing it sounds great, it is easy to use and is feature packed

And it has finally a way to add my own samples and waves i waited for that sooooo long ^^

but there are two thinks that would make superior drummer… well even more superior imo 😀

1.) I would love to add my own drumset with more hits maybe a library maker that leads me through it like
“play/add 4 Hard hits on the kick” … “now play 4 medium hits on the kick”
and so on just so that i can add my own snare some how to layer it or use it as a simplified kit
it think it would be amazing.

2.) Another point i love about the new superior drummer is the addition of the electronic sounds
but they are not soo easy to find and are not in the library as a kit. for example
i want a set but the bassdrum should be a electronic bassdrum layered with the original one …
so i click on the bassdrum and there are only the real bassdrums and the electronic ones are somewere else … do you know what i mean?

cheers guys!
and thanks for this amazing product guys!

Topic

[Henrik]

@Thomas Weishäupl said:
1.) I would love to add my own drumset with more hits maybe a library maker that leads me through it like
“play/add 4 Hard hits on the kick” … “now play 4 medium hits on the kick”
and so on just so that i can add my own snare some how to layer it or use it as a simplified kit
it think it would be amazing.

Thanks for the feedback – it’s noted 🙂

2.) Another point i love about the new superior drummer is the addition of the electronic sounds
but they are not soo easy to find and are not in the library as a kit. for example
i want a set but the bassdrum should be a electronic bassdrum layered with the original one …
so i click on the bassdrum and there are only the real bassdrums and the electronic ones are somewere else … do you know what i mean?

I may misunderstand you here, but if you want to stack the kick with an electronic kick – what you do is:
1. Right click the kick and in the menu selected More > (Stack) Add To >, and in there select the articulation you like to add the electronic kick to. If you are unsure of which articulation to choose, just pick the topmost.
2. In the Search for Instrument window – click the tags Type “Electronic” and Instrument “Kick”. You’ll now have a list of electronic kicks. Find a suiting one, and press the blue “Stack on ” button in the bottom right corner.

Henrik Ekblom - User Experience Designer
Toontrack

[Thomas Weishäupl]

Thank you very much! that helped a lot 🙂

[jokerone]

VST3 Support for Cubase or any DAW

That would be something cool.

1

Thanked by: SticknSteel

[ahrayeph]

As per the message passed on by the Toontrack Facebook, I’m posting my remarks on SD3 here, like you asked.

Aside of the – frankly glowing – review I gave them on SD3, I also had a few features which are lacking compared to SD2, making it harder to work with inside a DAW environment.

Most importantly, there’s the multichannel stereo outs. I had hoped that we’d be getting 16 stereo outs which could, by choice, be set up as mono outs inside of SD3. That would have been the easiest routing option for mix treatment outside of the SD3 GUI environment. In absence of that, I could live with the stereo option as it was in SD2 : stereo outs which could be set to mono in the DAW’s virtual instrument routing options. It at least left me with 32 mono outs and the ability to route each invidivual kit element to such a mono out. It also meant I had outputs I didn’t use.

With SD3, however, I only have stereo outs in the program which are seen in the DAW as just that : stereo outs. They can’t be set to mono like in SD2. What this means is that I have to route each invidivual kit element to a stereo out, which a) prompts me to route the DAW instrument outs for these to a separate mono bus, which is one extra layer and b) because I have to route these individual kits to stereo outs, it means that all of SD3’s multichannel outputs are taken! And that is without the surround channels! Three kick mics, one mono snare top, a stereo snare bottom, a hi hat mic, three tom mics, two floor tom mics, two stereo overhead mics and three stereo ambient mics, totalling all 16 outputs. That is hardly what I call economical.

So what I’m requesting – pretty please with a cherry on top – is one of two things : if it would at all be possible, I would ask for the options of choosing either mono or stereo channels inside of SD3, with this being mirrored in the DAW of one’s choice, or, if that is too hard to do on a reasonably short term, to reinstate the option to turn the multichannel outs to mono, like in SD2. I have to confess the former option is more appealing to me than the latter, but ultimately, I don’t know how easy or hard it is to put this into SD3’s code.

My second request pertains the MIDI mapping. While it’s easy to have everything close together in the GUI and the amount of tabs are reduced, I’m missing an option to clear all MIDI mapping to custom make your own, which was present inside SD2 as well. In SD3, it’s easy enough to swap MIDI notes, but it’s not very clean, and it’s easy to miss a note (or several), which are doubled on the key bed. I do understand why the MIDI notes are mapped this way, but I’ve found that for me, at least, it’s a lot more convenient to have the MIDI notes’s sequence correspond with a mixing desk lay out of a kit, i.e. kick first, then snare, then hi hats, then toms, then overheads, then ambience, and I custom build my maps to work this way. When programming drums inside the MIDI grid of my DAW, it works well visually because all kit elements’ layers and its corresponding notes are grouped together in a logical way. I’ve been doing this for years, so it would be a lot easier to be able to clear the SD3 standard MIDI map, build a custom one and save that, while I’m requesting features anyway. Because that would also be a worthy addition to SD3 : the ability to save and load the standard and custom MIDI maps, so you could instantly switch from one map to another, depending on the work you’re doing. It’s a lot easier than having to remap everything on older projects, or even put rendered drum files into Tracker (nothing against Tracker, which does an incredible job in its own right, but adapting and loading MIDI maps is a lot faster in some cases). So I’m hoping this could also be addressed in a future update.

Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work. SD3 is an update you can be proud of.

[Henrik Bergman]

Thanks TT for a lot of great improvements in SD3!

Some more SD3 feature requests:

– I would like SD3 to recognize all the Richard Devine (and others) mixer presets from the EZdrummer Claustrophobia expansion, as they are not showing up in SD3.
– And I would like SD3 mixer preset expansions from Richard Devine, as the ones he has done for SD3 are amazing, I want MORE! 🙂

[Henrik]

@ahrayeph said:
So what I’m requesting – pretty please with a cherry on top – is one of two things : if it would at all be possible, I would ask for the options of choosing either mono or stereo channels inside of SD3, with this being mirrored in the DAW of one’s choice, or, if that is too hard to do on a reasonably short term, to reinstate the option to turn the multichannel outs to mono, like in SD2. I have to confess the former option is more appealing to me than the latter, but ultimately, I don’t know how easy or hard it is to put this into SD3’s code.

This can be solved in some DAW:s (Pro Tools for example) by selecting only Left (or Right) from Superior Drummer’s outputs (thus capturing a mono signal). We have noticed that it doesn’t seem to be easy to do in Cubase for example, so we will discuss the mono output option, and see what we can do!

My second request pertains the MIDI mapping. While it’s easy to have everything close together in the GUI and the amount of tabs are reduced, I’m missing an option to clear all MIDI mapping to custom make your own, which was present inside SD2 as well.

Regarding this – Superior Drummer 3 has two ways of mapping/transforming MIDI:

1. The “MIDI in/E-drums” in Settings. Changes here are applied on incoming MIDI (from a DAW, e-drum kit etc).
2. The internal MIDI mapping/velocity etc. – found in the drums tab, in different Property Boxes on the right side. Changes here are applied after the incoming MIDI mapping, and applies to all MIDI being played (from external sources, but also all internal MIDI playing – on the Superior Drummer 3 track for example).

An example what the intended workflow is: You have e-drums hooked up to Superior Drummer 3. You set up the MIDI mapping for the kit in the settings page, since this mapping will always be active (even if you change (Drums and Mixer) presets, or even when you change Sound Library.

However – in one particular preset, you find that the snare velocity isn’t reacting to your e-drum snare like you want it to. You now change the velocity in the drums tab, since these changes only will apply to the currently selected preset.

—

I just wanted to make sure that you are aware of the (quite complex) options in Superior Drummer 3 for MIDI mapping 🙂 When doing complete mapping overhauls – it is often a good idea to do this in the MIDI in/E-drums settings page, since you can save this as a mapping preset. Would you find it useful with an “Empty” MIDI mapping preset to start with?

Henrik Ekblom - User Experience Designer
Toontrack

[Mario Krušelj]

@Henrik, I think what ahrayeph wants is to be able to completely clear the mapping of ALL hits for the currently loaded kit. So, not in MIDI in/E-drums section, but in the “MIDI Mapping Key” area to the very right of SD3 GUI.

I agree that this would be useful. It would also be useful if we could directly delete a mapping there, instead of only being able to drag&drop around swapping the mapping keys. Sometehing like Alt+click on a key to remove mapping from the clicked key? Shift/Ctrl+click on keys for a regular contiguous/non-contiguous multiple selection of keys, then Alt+click on deleting all that are selected? Definitely a workflow enhancer!

Some kitpieces have more than 15 aliases on the keyboard, often (I’m looking at you, ride bow hit!). Removing them one by one by first selecting a kitpiece, then expanding the hit type in MIDI Mapping panel, then right-clicking and removing each one is a long and arduous process. It’s also RSI inducing, which is not nice! 🙂

[Henrik]

@Mario Krušelj said:
@Henrik, I think what ahrayeph wants is to be able to completely clear the mapping of ALL hits for the currently loaded kit. So, not in MIDI in/E-drums section, but in the “MIDI Mapping Key” area to the very right of SD3 GUI.

I agree that this would be useful. It would also be useful if we could directly delete a mapping there, instead of only being able to drag&drop around swapping the mapping keys. Sometehing like Alt+click on a key to remove mapping from the clicked key? Shift/Ctrl+click on keys for a regular contiguous/non-contiguous multiple selection of keys, then Alt+click on deleting all that are selected? Definitely a workflow enhancer!

Some kitpieces have more than 15 aliases on the keyboard, often (I’m looking at you, ride bow hit!). Removing them one by one by first selecting a kitpiece, then expanding the hit type in MIDI Mapping panel, then right-clicking and removing each one is a long and arduous process. It’s also RSI inducing, which is not nice! 🙂  

Thanks for the feedback! I will take a look at the design and see what I can cook up 🙂

Henrik Ekblom - User Experience Designer
Toontrack

[profirhino]

OK, after trying S3 out for a few days :

first the good news – congrats, this is a fantastic piece of software !
you addressed almost every user request from S2, and you did it in pragmatic, convenient ways – great job, guys !
library is worthy of the new generation too, didn’t expect any less from you, your sampling rarely disappointed in the past, and S3 sure is a highlight.

Allow me to list a few little oversights and niggles though, most would be super easy to solve, afaics.

– official pdf manual – essential, ’nuff said.
what can be desirable about everybody using home cooked versions where you have no control over quality ?
(as much as I’m grateful for the current inofficial one !)

– Evil Drums deserve full functionality. It is an essential part of Superior for many of us, like it or not.
We bought a full-on Toontrack SDX expansion after all, not a 3rd party product with a Toontrack player. Big difference !
You can keep the silly graphics if you think that’s a good idea, but please – make them work, stand alone & in the browser.

– on a related note, please treat us S3 & EZD 1 owners the same way you treated EZD 2 users by giving us access to that Poprock EZX workaround, that would allow us to keep using our EZD 1 sounds – it would only be fair, require no development and not even give us any extra advantage, just give us back our own sounds …

finally a little feature request:
would it be possible to add a favourites funcion to the MIDI browser ?
a super basic one like in EZKeys would already be a good start.
you know, thousands and thousands of cryptcally named, sometimes very similar files – it would certainly help !

thanks for listening (and of course for a great new product),
Rhino

[Patrik Wall]

@profirhino said:
finally a little feature request:
would it be possible to add a favourites funcion to the MIDI browser ?
a super basic one like in EZKeys would already be a good start.
you know, thousands and thousands of cryptcally named, sometimes very similar files – it would certainly help !
Rhino  

You already have a few ways of doing this

1) You can set the files in Grooves browser as favorites by clicking the star symbol to the left of the groove name. If you later want to filter on only those favorites there is a star button on the actual column.

2) You have access to a folder called “User MIDI”, this is actually the same folder as in EZD2 so any favorites you might have from EZD2 will be visible in Sup3 as well. Here you can create, remove and rename folders by right clicking the folder, you can also manage it on your OS file explorer and later sync the changes by again right clicking the “User MIDI” root folder and select “Sync File Changes”. You can also right click on the files themselves and either rename or remove them from disk.

See attached images.

Hope that helps 🙂

Bass player in swedish thrash metal band Defiatory
www.defiatory.se

Coder at Toontrack
www.toontrack.com

[profirhino]

thank you Patrik,
that helps indeed !
like I said, just a straightforward way of marking candidates across libraries, this looks like a good solution.
I might even get into making song-specific collections in user MIDI, great idea !
the tap-to-find function gives you a new, more holistic view of the grooves, so both your suggestions will fit right in.
thanks, consider it solved,
Rhino

[ahrayeph]

@Henrik said:

This can be solved in some DAW:s (Pro Tools for example) by selecting only Left (or Right) from Superior Drummer’s outputs (thus capturing a mono signal). We have noticed that it doesn’t seem to be easy to do in Cubase for example, so we will discuss the mono output option, and see what we can do!

The thing is, I’m working with Presonus Studio One and Logic, so it’s not just an issue in Cubase, as none of these three has such an option. And you’ll probably agree that having to purchase yet another DAW just to solve this issue is a bit much, right? 😉 But thanks for taking it into account and trying to work it out.

@Henrik said:
Regarding this – Superior Drummer 3 has two ways of mapping/transforming MIDI:

1. The “MIDI in/E-drums” in Settings. Changes here are applied on incoming MIDI (from a DAW, e-drum kit etc).
2. The internal MIDI mapping/velocity etc. – found in the drums tab, in different Property Boxes on the right side. Changes here are applied after the incoming MIDI mapping, and applies to all MIDI being played (from external sources, but also all internal MIDI playing – on the Superior Drummer 3 track for example).

An example what the intended workflow is: You have e-drums hooked up to Superior Drummer 3. You set up the MIDI mapping for the kit in the settings page, since this mapping will always be active (even if you change (Drums and Mixer) presets, or even when you change Sound Library.

However – in one particular preset, you find that the snare velocity isn’t reacting to your e-drum snare like you want it to. You now change the velocity in the drums tab, since these changes only will apply to the currently selected preset.

—

I just wanted to make sure that you are aware of the (quite complex) options in Superior Drummer 3 for MIDI mapping 🙂 When doing complete mapping overhauls – it is often a good idea to do this in the MIDI in/E-drums settings page, since you can save this as a mapping preset. Would you find it useful with an “Empty” MIDI mapping preset to start with?  

Yes, in terms of MIDI S3 has a lot more to offer, and I’m sure I’ll be coming to grips with it more as time passes. Editing MIDI maps in the MIDI in/E-drums page is indeed a better option, and thanks for alerting me to that, because I didn’t think it was possible at first for anything other than E-drums.

However… This page lacks the option to use either numbers or MIDI notes. Especially for use in a DAW environment, and keeping in line with the maps I’ve previously saved, seeing the MIDI notes on the MIDI in/E-drums page would come in a lot more handy. I’ve loaded one of the MIDI maps I created in S2, and can’t make heads nor tails of how S3 translates it to the number system; it’s entirely different. My Snare Center is at 1, my Kick Open is at 36, when with MIDI notes, Kick Open would be C1, Kick Hit C#1 and, as a consequence, Snare Center would be D1. As I explained in my first post : for programming purposes inside my DAW, I like my kit elements and their various articulations to line up like they would on a mixing desk : kick first, then snare, then hi hat, etc. If I can’t work out which number corresponds with which MIDI Note, I’m kind of screwed, because getting to know that system, or swapping the MIDI programming in entire projects that were already set up and waiting for S3 to be released, would cost me a lot of time. This could certainly be made easier by having the same ‘show numbers/show MIDI Notes’ option on the MIDI in/E-drums page, don’t you think?

Anyway, thanks for the reply, I appreciate you taking out the time to explain all of this in more detail. But as you can see, I feel there are still some improvements that could be made to this already great upgrade.

Cheers,

[Henrik]

@ahrayeph said:
…However… This page lacks the option to use either numbers or MIDI notes. Especially for use in a DAW environment, and keeping in line with the maps I’ve previously saved, seeing the MIDI notes on the MIDI in/E-drums page would come in a lot more handy…

Yes, that can be a tricky situation for the users. We will fix it for a coming update!

Henrik Ekblom - User Experience Designer
Toontrack

[jtnyc]

A feature I liked in SD2 was the ability to re[place all of the toms with a matched set from another kit with one click.

The ability to save midi maps that are made in the midi properties box would be very useful as well.

The ability to save mixer only presets. Maybe we can in SD3 (I haven’t figured it out). Can we?

[jtnyc]

A feature I liked in SD2 was the ability to re[place all of the toms with a matched set from another kit with one click.

The ability to save midi maps that are made in the midi properties box would be very useful as well.

The ability to save mixer only presets. Maybe we can in SD3 (I haven’t figured it out). Can we?

[Author]

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