EZdrummer 2: time signature changes

[Hazy]

I have made a song in Reaper 64 with various...

I have made a song in Reaper 64 with various tempo and time signature changes. EZdrummer follows the tempo changes perfectly but stays in 4/4. This means that e.g. measure 21 in Reaper is measure 17 in EZdrummer, bars in EZdrummer don’t start at the first beat etc., which make it very hard to find a fitting groove.

It would be great if EZdrummer would change time signature in sync with Reaper or alternatively if I could enter these changes manually in the Song Track.

I have made a song in Reaper 64 with various tempo and time signature changes. EZdrummer follows the tempo changes perfectly but stays in 4/4. This means that e.g. measure 21 in Reaper is measure 17 in EZdrummer, bars in EZdrummer don’t start at the first beat etc., which make it very hard to find a fitting groove.

It would be great if EZdrummer would change time signature in sync with Reaper or alternatively if I could enter these changes manually in the Song Track.

2

Thanked by: roliva and Ian Neal

Topic

[Donna]

Why couldn’t it be handled the way Jamstix does it where you have to manually set the time sig change in both the host and plugin.

[Bryan Block]

Just a thought, as a work around for you guys, couldn’t you run two MIDI tracks for the drums using two instances of EZ Drummer, one each track? One instance can be in one time signature and the other can be in the other. Neither would be playing at the same time. Just put the parts that correspond to each time signature on the corresponding track.

-b

Creativity is a Work Ethic.

[Pook2000]

@Bryan Block said:

Just a thought, as a work around for you guys, couldn’t you run two MIDI tracks for the drums using two instances of EZ Drummer, one each track? One instance can be in one time signature and the other can be in the other. Neither would be playing at the same time. Just put the parts that correspond to each time signature on the corresponding track.

-b

Hi Bryan,

Thanks for the suggestion. The thing is, this can easily be done within one single track as is and isn’t the root of the problem. The root, at least for me, is quick visual access to sections that you might need to edit. Once you change time signature, regardless of how many tracks you’ve divided your drum parts across, the alignment is completely off with the EZ drummer ruler and you have to keep zooming in and out to get to particular points on the ruler if your parts don’t align with the large divisions in fully zoomed out mode, (hope this makes sense). This might seem trivial but if you’re on a flow and moving back and forth across a substantial sized piece, editing, reworking sections or whatever, this limitation becomes a real pain in the ass.

Even if the developers included some sort of markers it would make life a little easier. Right now there is only one marker. It’s about flow and having an efficient system so that you don’t have to keep squinting at the screen, zooming in and out, getting the right sub division so you can ‘snap’ your different sections to. The program assumes that if you start in 4/4 that your whole piece is going to stay that way for the duration. Any deviation from that throws your alignments off and with it your work flow, even if you split the parts up onto separate tracks.

The developers should look at music writing software like Sibelius or Finale to see how easily in these programs you can just switch between any time signature you like, without a second thought and everything is as clear as day in front of your eyes, perfectly represented, perfectly aligned and perfectly played back for you. I have no idea how difficult the programming would be or the logistics of such an advancement but you’d think a software package that deals specifically with rhythm would allow you to achieve these ends. It should be a fundamental attribute as far as I’m concerned.

P.

[Bryan Block]

Hey Pook,
I understand that the feature “should be built in” but as of right now, it isn’t, maybe in an update. I was just trying to think about how to easily work around it. If I had to guess, I would think that (in the back end programming) every host provides information to VSTi’s in a different way, which might make UNIVERSALLY reading that info from a variety of hosts a tricky bit of programming for Toontrack. Maybe SD 3.0 will provide that feature, and will be one of the big differentiators between EZ and Superior.

Creativity is a Work Ethic.

[Pook2000]

I hear ya Bryan and appreciate what you’re saying. And you know, it’s not like it’s impossible to achieve the desired results as is, it’s just that it’s awkward and cumbersome. And I agree completely the programming aspect of such functionality could be a logistical nightmare but for this sort of package I think it’s a must.

Would be nice to hear Toontrack themselves pitch something into the debate

Indeed let’s keep an eye open for SD3 to see what it offers.

P.

[Scott]

AFAIK Sibelius or Finale are programs and not plugins. I would think that it would be more difficult to have a plugin communicate with the host than have the feature in a standalone program. I’m not a programmer so I don’t know. Just a thought.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Pook2000]

Good point Scott and fully appreciate what you’re saying

All I’d really personally hope for is that visual references were better, like on the ruler, with an easier way to snap to specific points without zooming in up close to get the finer increments and then back out for a more global view. Maybe it’s not even practical. I’m not sure what the solution is or what to suggest so apologies.

But clickable, labelled markers as an option would definitely help! Once you’ve applied them then returning to edit, particularly in those finer timeline increments would be so much easier. A possibility perhaps?

Thanks. P.

[Scott]

Anything’s possible with enough user requests, support, and enough M&Ms to grease the wheels. I like peanut one personally.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Peter]

@Scott said:

AFAIK Sibelius or Finale are programs and not plugins. I would think that it would be more difficult to have a plugin communicate with the host than have the feature in a standalone program. I’m not a programmer so I don’t know. Just a thought.

But EZD already communicates with the host (Sync to Host) to get the tempo.

[John]

@petearch said:

But EZD already communicates with the host (Sync to Host) to get the tempo.

As I wrote earlier in this thread, Tempo is communicated to the plugin from the host, Time signature (and changes) are not. If you know of a plugin that can change Time signature accordingly to the host’s Timeline, it would be very interesting to take a look at.

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Olof Westman]

The VST plug-in format allows for the plug-in to ask the host for
the current tempo and time signature. However, there is no way to
ask the host about what happens at other times. Nor is it actually
required by the host to provide the information the plug asks for.

Apart from any technical limitations that are out of Toontrack’s
control the choice of leaving EZdrummer 2 without a way to
control tempo and time signature, within its own songtrack,
should also be perceived as a way to keep things EZ.

Olof Westman - Toontrack
Coder

[Peter]

@John said:

@petearch said:

But EZD already communicates with the host (Sync to Host) to get the tempo.

As I wrote earlier in this thread, Tempo is communicated to the plugin from the host, Time signature (and changes) are not. If you know of a plugin that can change Time signature accordingly to the host’s Timeline, it would be very interesting to take a look at.

BFD3 detects time signature changes without a problem, but it doesn’t (yet) represent them graphically. Apparently this is on their FR list : http://www.fxpansion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93487

[Hazy]

@Olle said:

Apart from any technical limitations that are out of Toontrack’s
control the choice of leaving EZdrummer 2 without a way to
control tempo and time signature, within its own songtrack,
should also be perceived as a way to keep things EZ.

Not EZ at all if your song has time signature changes… Why not find an EZ way to let us change time signature in the Song Track?

[Biard MacGuineas]

@Joachim said:

since it is not possible to synchronize the time signature automatically,
it would be helpful, if i could change it manually

@Donna said:

Why couldn’t it be handled the way Jamstix does it where you have to manually set the time sig change in both the host and plugin.

+1

[petebradt]

I tend to mix and match song segments from the two expansion packs I find useful, which are Blues and Americana. I pull the midi segment into Pro Tools, export it as stereo audio, place the audio where I want it in the timeline, and move on. I can diddle with it as much as I want, but this is the only way I can think of to achieve what the OP desires. It’s more work but I’m a MIDI ignoramus. Much easier for me to mess with audio files.

[Author]

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