Design Flaw? Soloed snare is louder in left channel of the stereo comp channel.

[altmanna]

Hi, Is there a particular reason why a soloed snare is louder in left channel of the stereo comp channel in the mixer??? This seems so arbitrary to me. Please see pictures. Thanks

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS Big Sur (11)

Topic

[drumjack52]

Maybe because of where a snare sits in a physical kit if you’re a right-handed drummer and have things set to hear the audio as if you were at the kit?

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.3.7
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[Bear-Faced Cow]

This is more to do with the mix routing and possible phase cancellation from the plug-in settings, and is not any indication of a bug/design flaw as I recreated the routing based on the screenshot from the snare and added the plug-ins with default settings and got a identical level outputs on either side.

I wouldn’t go over analyzing individual outputs. The only thing that matters is the drum mix as a whole.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

[altmanna]

I found out what the problem is and I wrote a lengthy response explaining it and then I lost the response…

So I’m keeping it short, it is a design flaw.

Jack, you are talking about things that pertain to recording and/or the way the mics are set-up. This is a problem with mixing and buses.

Jord you partially correct, the problem comes with this Yamaha Rock Dry  drumkit. The mixer in this drumset has a comp bus already set up. Even with all plug ins off it is still uneven. It is the send that creates phase cancellation/stereo shift. Creating a new bus with new sends and the issue is gone, hence why you can’t recreate the problem. See photo.

Sending a digital mono signal into a digital stereo bus should not create phase cancellation or movement of the stereo field unless there is a design flaw.

I’m open to hear otherwise…

Now, one can care whether a snare drifts to the side or one can not…I do.

Cheers,

Andy

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS Big Sur (11)

[Bear-Faced Cow]

Pictures speak a thousand words. Tested with the Noble & Cooley snare based on the Yamaha Rock preset.

[attachment file="3104951"]

If it were a design flaw, this would mean that it would occur everywhere.  Not to mention your theory of not seeing the issue by adding a new send. I tried this on an adjacent preset with no additions. Levels are quite even.

[attachment file="3104952"]

There is something within the preset itself introducing phase cancellation. Could be a setting that has been overlooked. Could be natural phenomena. However, you will have to do more to convince me it is a design flaw.

And if you’re going to be anal over a very slight and rather unnoticeable resultant change in level over a single channel out of context of the entire mix, then modify the preset as you see fit to get what you want. They serve as a jumping off point. Nothing says you have to use them as they are.

jord

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Jordan L. Chilcott

Web Site: https://jordanchilcottmusic.com/

1

Thanked by: drumjack52

[altmanna]

I didn’t say that the entire SD3 program is a design flaw.

If it’s in the preset itself, then it’s a design flaw in the preset. And if this is present in one preset, it can be in others as well.

I checked all the routing several times.

What is a natural phenomena in the digital world where nothing except the samples are “natural” and everything else is coded?

 

As I stated I found a solution to this problem. The reason why I post it is so maybe other users who have the same issue in other presets know what the reason and/or solution is.

For you its ok to have phase cancellation and not know where it comes from, for others it may not.

 

Yup, some people are anal and some are dull in hearing.

Much love

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS Big Sur (11)

[drumjack52]

[postquote quote=3104994]
I don’t know why you’re arguing with someone like Jord who knows a hell of a lot more about the program than you or I and has done a lot more work in the real world with audio and drums than the two of us. I respect him and if he says something I’d believe it.

Do you really hear what you’re talking about? Or are you just going by what’s showing in a meter or indicator? Either way I’m reminded of a title of a Shakespeare play: much ado about nothing.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.3.7
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[altmanna]

How can you judge what I’ve done or who I am? I am a professional music producer. I get paid to do this.

If I can hear it and it’s there, then it says more about my skills than the ones who can’t hear it.

This topic is a legitimate question in understanding the program in detail.

Seriously, the amount of presumptuousness…if you guys don’t give a !@#$ then don’t reply to this post.

Don’t tell other people what to do or how to do it if you yourself don’t care.

 

Be Blessed

[drumjack52]

[postquote quote=3104950]
I think our friend is making the cardinal sin of judging something when solo’d and not as you mention in the context of a mix. Put it in a mix and I doubt even someone with so-called golden ears would hear it. I can’t imagine Bob Rock or Bob Clearmountain would worry about it. If I had to hazard a guess I wonder if bleed level and hit velocity might enter into the scene?

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6
Operating system: macOS High Sierra (10.13)

Jack
aka musicman691 on other forums
Superior Drummer 3.3.7
Death and Darkness 1.0.1
PT 2021.6
OSX 10.13.6
3.46 GHz hex core 2012 MacPro 48 gig ram

[altmanna]

I think you making a cardinal sin of speaking of or imagining people you don’t know and how they work. The people you mention definitely hear things that you don’t and definitely care about things you don’t, that is why you know them for what they do.

What if I wanted to heavily lean on the Compressor Bus for a song because it gives me that vibe I need, yet the snare is side heavy and I’m trying to find out why…

Too many assumptions again…

You don’t know, what you don’t know….

Be Blessed

[Petter]

I’m not sure, but this may be a bug. Our programmers will have to look closer at this. If I max out the send signal from that Snare bus to the Comp bus, and then back down again to -4.0db in the “Dry Yamaha Rock” preset, it doesn’t sound identical to the original preset and that seems wrong. Either that is not how it’s supposed to sound after just touching the send, or the Dry Yamaha Rock preset is not working correctly causing the snare to be slightly shifted to one side.

I’ll create a ticket for this so that this may be investigated.

Thanks for reporting this!

Petter Adsten - Toontrack
Support & Betatesting

3

Thanked by: Brad, Scott Eshleman and drumjack52

[Petter]

A programmer has confirmed that this is an error in the Dry Yamaha Rock preset that was most likely caused by an old bug back when the preset was being created. The error can be fixed in your own projects by just touching the send fader as I described earlier, then saving the project.

A fix to the preset would need to be released in an update to the Superior Drummer 3 core library for the preset to load correctly.

Petter Adsten - Toontrack
Support & Betatesting

3

Thanked by: Brad, Scott Eshleman and drumjack52

[altmanna]

You are welcome. Am I going to get a discount now for finding your bugs? lolz

Cheers

[Author]

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