C&V SDX

[notstewart]

I’m certainly not getting any better at mixing.
Especially having problems getting a decent kick drum. Tried lowering the pitch slightly, but it still just sounds like a thud to me, any tips?
Song is “So Far Away”

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=52404

thanks!

Samplitude Pro X3 Suite, SD 3, Tascam UH7000

Topic

[ajxtjs]

Good effort – the guitarwork is nice and I like the lo-fi drum sound, reminds me a bit of Sebadoh and Elliott Smit. But yeah the kick is very quiet. The first thing I’d do is… turn it up. Compression and eq will help too – I wouldn’t go over the top though, the song doesn’t need a huge death metal kick. Try to bring out the beater smack with eq, this will help it cut through the mix, and tighten the overall sound with a bit of compression. I would have said lowering the pitch would probably contribute to the kick sounding like a muddy thud though, so maybe reset that. Anyway good luck with it.

https://brownstratos.bandcamp.com/
http://soundcloud.com/westonsupermaim

[notstewart]

Thanks ajxtjs!!
I have some compression and eq on it, but I never seem to be able to “…bring out the beater smack with eq”.
I’ll have to start putting in more time in the mix to bring out the right sound. Kick drum on it’s own it sounds fine, but I still don’t have the skill to bring out everything in the mix.
I’ll get there eventually.

Playing with the pitch probably was a mistake also.

thanks again,

Paul

Samplitude Pro X3 Suite, SD 3, Tascam UH7000

[Scott]

I have some compression and eq on it, but I never seem to be able to “…bring out the beater smack with eq”.

There may be other instruments/sounds that are masking the kick beater frequencies. Usually, the beater freq is anywhere between 2-5kHz. Perhaps dipping a bit somewhere in that frequency range in the guitar and bass will help…and bringing up the volume of the kick won’t hurt either.

Scott Sibley - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[notstewart]

Thanks Scott!!
I will check to see what settings I have for guitar and bass in that area.
I know that I increased the snare in that frequency range.
Sounds like a cut in that area from other instruments and a slight increase in the kick should do the trick.

Paul

Samplitude Pro X3 Suite, SD 3, Tascam UH7000

[notstewart]

Well I did a remix and took your suggestions into consideration.
I made changes to the eq settings on the kick bus and put a different compressor on it.
I lowered eq in the electric guitar bus in the range mentioned.
I raised the level on the kick slightly but can’t go too high because I don’t have a limiter on the master bus (probably should have put a limiter on the drum bus).
I use my acoustic guitar (low E and A strings) as a bass, so I’m sure that is not helping either.

Anyway, I’m getting tired of listening to this song, so I need a break from it. 🙂

Thanks for all the help, on my next song I’ll definitely keep your suggestions in mind right at the start of the mix!

Samplitude Pro X3 Suite, SD 3, Tascam UH7000

[jim_k]

If you are using a comp on the kick, make sure the attack had enough time to let the transient of the beater through before it gets compressed. I know, obvious, but just in case you didn’t check.

Jim

Keeper of the Shrine The Lamb Laid Down on MIDI www.lldom.blogspot.com

[notstewart]

Thanks Jim!
That is something I didn’t check.
Compressor settings for attack and release are confusing to me as far as which instruments need fast attack and vice versa.
Therefore I usually just play around with ratio and threshold.
I’m assuming that if the kick needs a slower attack, then bass probably does also, would that be correct?

Perhaps what I should be asking for is recommendations for a good book (or website) on mixing (with strong reference to using compressors and EQ), any suggestions?

thanks,

Paul

Samplitude Pro X3 Suite, SD 3, Tascam UH7000

[Nathan]

ORIGINAL: notstewart

Thanks Jim!
That is something I didn’t check.
Compressor settings for attack and release are confusing to me as far as which instruments need fast attack and vice versa.
Therefore I usually just play around with ratio and threshold.
I’m assuming that if the kick needs a slower attack, then bass probably does also, would that be correct?

Perhaps what I should be asking for is recommendations for a good book (or website) on mixing (with strong reference to using compressors and EQ), any suggestions?

thanks,

Paul

Look on the SOS website for their compression explained articles…

With kick drum, the idea here is to emphasise the “click”, the transient of the beater htting the drum.

You want to use a fairly fast compressor or plugin and set its attack parameter to a value of between 5 and 50ms. This means that that the click will go through the comp unaffected before it reacts. Set the release between 40 and 100ms, and the ratio to around 4:1 for starters.

Loop a section of kick and lower the comp threshold until you see about 6dB of gain reducion happening and listen. The volume of the kick will be reduced a bit, but it will be a bit more clicky. Use the comps gain or makeup gain control to bring the kick volume back up to its original perceived loudess (prob about 4-6dB). Toggle the bypass button and compare the kick with comp engaged and disengaged. There should be a noticeable difference in definition.

Try adjusting the attack parameter and listen to the click sound and the oomph dis/appearing. Try altering the ratio and the threshold for more extreme “squashing”. Play with the release (esp at higher compression levels) and listen to the sustain of the drum change.

You might find the kick “cuts” better at a “clickier” setting when part of the mix than actualy sounds right in isolation. Use it alongside EQ (esp boost at 5kHz) to find a natural, but defined sound that works with your song.

This can work with bass guitar and other instruments to change the dynamics of the sound. Once you know how the comp works and how it is worked, you won’t need to “remember” settings, you’ll just fiddle with the attack for definition and the release for sustain and (along with your ears) you’ll shape the sound you want.

Hope this is helpful

>

SD2.3, NYII, C&V, MC, MF, ED, Latin Perc, Twisted, Pop, N1H, Electronic, Classic, Funkmasters, Rock Solid, Blues, Indie-Folk.

[notstewart]

Thanks Planetnine!
I went to the SOS website and there are plenty of articles related to using compressors, so I will definitely be browsing around there.

You want to use a fairly fast compressor or plugin and set its attack parameter to a value of between 5 and 50ms. This means that that the click will go through the comp unaffected before it reacts.

Did you mean you want a slower attack to allow the click to go through before the compressor reacts?

Samplitude Pro X3 Suite, SD 3, Tascam UH7000

[notstewart]

I printed out a good article from the SOS website, and for anyone watching this thread here is another site that seems to be quite good also.
It is a pay site but even the free introductory videos are quite good. There are turtorials for many things including Superior Drummer.
From the first into video on compression, I learned something completely new to me which was that the release of the compressor should be somewhat timed to the beat (which makes complete sense to me now).
Anyway for anyone interested, here is the link:

http://www.macprovideo.com/tutorial/allaboutcompression

hope it comes in handy.

Samplitude Pro X3 Suite, SD 3, Tascam UH7000

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