Best low-mid kit for Superior, C&V, & EZD?

[Spectacle]

Hello everyone.

I’m going to be buying an electronic drum kit, and I need some advice. I’m moving out of a single-family home and into a condo/townhouse, so noise issues are going to make it impossible for me to play my acoustic kit at home.

I want something that will enable me to practice to my heart’s content whenever I want, allowing me to trigger DKFH Custom & Vintage, EZDrummer, & Superior 2.0 when it comes out (my DAW is Logic Studio), both for inputting MIDI and just plain practicing.

So which kit would you suggest? My price range is generally around $1000 or less. Though I would be willing to go up to $1500 if it made a great deal of difference.

Since I’ll be primarily using Toontrack samples, the quality of the module sounds is no big deal (though it would be nice to have something at least passable so that I can quickly turn it on and jam without laughing). I do want something where the pads and cymbals are going to allow me to be pretty expressive.

I already have an Alesis Control pad, which is fantastic. But I’d also like something that will allow me to actually PLAY with full range of movement, etc.

Some options I have seen:
Alesis DM5 Pro kit ($599)
Alesis DM5 Pro kit w/Surge cymbals ($799)
Roland TD-3SW V-Compact ($999)
Roland TD-6SW V-Tour ($1295)
Roland HD-1 V-Drums Lite ($799) *a bit small and pedals are odd to play
Hart Virtuoso TE3.2 ($799 + sound module)
Yamaha DTXplorer ($699)
Yamaha DTXpress IV ($999)
Yamaha DTXpress IV Special ($1495)
The various Simmons options appear to fall apart quickly, and struggle with 16th notes, from all reports.

Is there one line or model that seems to be the best fit with these Toontrack products?

Any suggestions for the best quality within this range? Personal experience?

Thanks in advance!

Topic

[MikeyVPT]

This is a tricky question you’re asking here… everyone has their own opinion!
 
In mine, I’d go with one that will allow you to play most naturally.  I mean, if you’re an acoustic drummer, play something with acoustic heads, ya know?
 
The Alesis kits give you that… I played them at NAMM this year, and although they’re using the sa… ahem… similar cymbals… to the RET Percussion kits, you get what you pay for, ya know?
 
With mesh and rubber, you’re looking at a new style of playing altogether.  I actually started off triggering software with a Stealth kit from RET.  It is VERY comparible to a practice pad.
 
You’ve got to ask yourself, do you need a module with the kit, or are you already using your computer for that?  I’ve got the computer to house my software (I happen to really enjoy EZD), and so I just went with the 250gb VPT package from RET.
 
However, if I had to go with something on this list, I’d probably go with the Alesis USB kit with it’s shiny new upgrades.
 
Good luck on your hunt!
 
-mikey

President - Virtual Percussion Outlet (.com) Equipment: RET Percussion Fusion Pro-CX and Stealth kit, VPT system from RET (EZDrummer with all expansions AND Superior 2.0, BFD2 also), PreSonus FireBox, Pro-Mark Sticks. www.youtube.com/MikeyVPT

[Spectacle]

Thanks for the advice, Mikey. And I’ve seen your YouTube videos before. Great stuff. Thanks for that — it’s very useful.

Although I’m coming from playing acoustic drums for years, I stopped by my local Banjo Mart the other day and tried out a couple of kits that they had working. And I actually think that I might PREFER the rubber toms to acoustic-type heads. And I certainly like the mesh snare pad a lot. So the surface for these drums is not so much a concern for me.

What IS a concern, however, is how articulate I can be with the pads:

I want to be able to play a wide range of dynamics on each pad and cymbal.
I want the pads to be able to keep up with me if I’m playing rolls and fast 16ths, etc.
I want to be able to have at least two-zone cymbals so I can play a bell and ride on one, and a mid and edge on another.
I want to be able to have a hi-hat that doesn’t just go open-close, but has some variation from one to the other (if possible).

I WILL be using EZDrummer, Superior Custom & Vintage, and Superior 2.0 when it comes out. And I have the computer and big external hard drives already. So:

I want the two-zone pads to have no trouble triggering different sounds in the software.
But I also wouldn’t mind having at least a decent (passable) module, so that I can just sit down and play quickly when I may not want to get the computer set up, etc.

If the Alesis will get me there for such a low price, I’m all over that.

But if not, perhaps the Roland TD-3 or TD-6? Or the Yamaha DTXpress IV Special?

What do you think, Mikey? I appreciate any advice you (or anyone here) might be able to give.

[Damian Blunt]

I have gradually upgraded from a Roland SPD-20 to a TD-12 via a TD-3….I cannot say enough good things about my experience with roland products….If you start with a Td-3 and you get the upgrade bug you can do so, pad by pad if you desire
 
I want to be able to play a wide range of dynamics on each pad and cymbal.
I want the pads to be able to keep up with me if I’m playing rolls and fast 16ths, etc.
I want to be able to have at least two-zone cymbals so I can play a bell and ride on one, and a mid and edge on another.
I want to be able to have a hi-hat that doesn’t just go open-close, but has some variation from one to the other (if possible).
 
 A Roland Kit will do all these
 
 

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
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[Spectacle]

Thanks grandaddy.

Will the TD-3 kit, with the FD-8 hi hat controller, give a realistic hi hat sound — gradual closed to open?

And will this translate via MIDI to the Toontrack software? Or will it just be open-close with that?

[Damian Blunt]

Will the TD-3 kit, with the FD-8 hi hat controller, give a realistic hi hat sound — gradual closed to open?
 
I used the TD-3 with the FD-7 controller, but yes the FD-8 will enable you to send MIDI continuous controller data….I can’t actually remember whether the hihat sounds in the module have more than open/closed articulations….I seem to remember they do…but that does not matter as much if you will mostly be triggering software.

And will this translate via MIDI to the Toontrack software? Or will it just be open-close with that?
 
You will be able to trigger the complete range of hihat articulations with this set up. 
 
The included CY-5 is also a great hihat pad

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
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[Spectacle]

Thanks very much, grandaddy. This is a tremendous help.

[MikeyVPT]

 RET uses the FD-8 also, and it works great!  I’m fairly sure anyone using EZD and that pedal will say the same thing.
 
As far as playing as dynamic and as fast as you’d like… I can tell you that the USB kit from Alesis will be VERY difficult for you.  Not only is BFD very raw and take a lot of time tweaking, but I don’t think Alesis is capable of handling any type of customer support… at least not enough to get customers through the loads of tweaking (I actually enjoy tweaking… and BFD, for that matter).
 
The TD-kits can do it (from what I’ve heard).
 
The RET kits can do it (I know from my own experience!).
 
It’s hard for me NOT to be biased here, only because I’ve played all the RET Percussion kits already.
 
Does this help?!
 
-mikey
 
 
 
 

President - Virtual Percussion Outlet (.com) Equipment: RET Percussion Fusion Pro-CX and Stealth kit, VPT system from RET (EZDrummer with all expansions AND Superior 2.0, BFD2 also), PreSonus FireBox, Pro-Mark Sticks. www.youtube.com/MikeyVPT

[Spectacle]

Thanks Mikey for your input. I really appreciate it. I was kind of thinking that might be the case with the Alesis kits, despite the attractive price.

And while the RET kits DO look great, it’s a ways beyond my current price range — even at the lowest end.

It appears that the Roland pads and module will allow me to be as articulate as possible, as well as giving me the option of either quickly sitting down and just playing with the module, or going by MIDI into C&V, EZD, and S2.0 (when it shows up…).

I’ll also be running my Alesis Control Pad into the MIDI in of the Module (or vice versa, then into my computer via USB), which will give me 8 more pads and 2 more external trigger ins. So I should be pretty set.

It looks like I’ll probably be headed in the Roland TD direction for now (TD-3, TD-6v, or TD-9), though if anyone wants to stop me and make a great case for Yamaha, I would listen….

[Damian Blunt]

I would double check that the module you get not only has an MIDI input but MIDI thru as well otherwise you will need another MIDI input into your DAW…..pretty certain the Roland modules don’t do this, not sure about the others

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
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[Spectacle]

What about if I run the module MIDI out into the MIDI in on my audio interface?

Right now I have two audio interfaces on my MacBookPro: my Alesis i/O 26 going into one FW400 port, and my POD X3Live is going into one USB port. Each one has a MIDI in and a MIDI out. And each of these works simultaneously with my MIDI piano, Control Pad, and DAW controller each plugged into a hub on the other USB port (all working fine at the same time in Logic 8).

[Spectacle]

And here’s an example of a guy doing something along the lines I’m looking for, though with a different controller than the Alesis Control Pad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL3mqGZIDgA&feature=related

As he explains in a post on there, he’s going Control Pad >> MIDI in of e-drums module >> MIDI out of module >> MIDI interface >> Mac/PC.

The module is a Roland TD6.

[Damian Blunt]

Sorry, the TD-6 and TD-9 do have MIDI thru….the TD-3 does not

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[Bergfotron]

ORIGINAL: grandaddy

Sorry, the TD-6 and TD-9 do have MIDI thru….the TD-3 does not

 
What he really need is not a MIDI Thru but a MIDI *merge*, right? A MIDI thru will only route the MIDI commands from one module to the next. But it will not merge MIDI commands from two units and send them to a third (the computer).
 
 

[Damian Blunt]

You’re probably right, I’ve never used a module in this way….but the MIDI ports are IN and OUT/THRU so I would have thought midi merge is going on within the unit?  

Damian Blunt - Toontrack
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[fignewton]

If you already have a kit around, why not try mesh heads with external triggers?
I pulled out a couple toms from my kit and tired it for a live show and works really good.  I am also using Pintech Pads and actually had better reponse using EZDrummer than i did when i used Pintech with my Roland module.

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