Audio Bounce needs this improvement-individual tracks THROUGH the mixer

[David Snow]

I am disappointed that there doesn’t seem to be a way to bounce every track, as separate parts, THROUGH the mixer. The choice is individual parts PRE mixer, or a stereo file POST mixer. Please guys, allow us to run individual parts THROUGH the mixer, getting back separate tracks that sound exactly like the stereo file, but separated. Now, I do understand that if you guys add this 3rd option, there still may be a slight difference between the sound of individually bounced tracks through the mixer, and the stereo file original sound. Most often, any stereo bus compressors will be hit differently when tracks go through them one at a time. So even though it may be impossible to have the individual parts sound 100% perfect due to compression, it will still be much closer. For example, the individually bounced parts sound way less impressive compared to the George Massenberg pre sets, when bounced individually with the options you give us. By bouncing them the way you guys have limited us, with the two options available, (pre mixer separated/post mixer stereo) I get muddy, dull sounding tracks instead of the nice polish George gave the tracks. Had each track gone through the master bus and mixer, the would sound much closer, if not identical to Georges mix. And I would have individual part control after. A stereo file does me little good if I want individual processing after. In the meantime, do you guy have any advise how to accomplish what I want? I think I might be able to operate all the parts in my Daw, and import them one by one, BACK into superior, and then do a stereo bounce on each one through the mixer. But this is a pain and takes away all the time saving advantage you guys have instilled in they wonderful product. Please advise.

Topic

[Olof Westman]

>The choice is individual parts PRE mixer, or a stereo file POST mixer.

Bouncing through the mixer is not limited to giving a single stereo
file as output. The mixer in Superior Drummer has 16 stereo outputs
and all of those, that are in use, will result in a bounced file.

>…the individually bounced parts sound way less impressive compared
> to the George Massenberg pre sets… I get muddy, dull sounding tracks
> instead of the nice polish George gave the tracks.

Apart from your own explanations for this, could it be that you are
bouncing with “All Bleed” and don’t like the effect?

>… do you guy have any advise how to accomplish what I want?

You can Solo each instrument and make a bounce for each of
them as if the other drums were not played. Just remember to
rename the output files in between so they don’t overwrite each other.

Olof Westman - Toontrack
Coder

1

Thanked by: RcKDrUmm3R

[Bill McCarthy]

There appears to be a bouncing problem. When I bounce tracks it seems as though the bounce tracks are way too low in dB. I have tried to adjust the outfits in the mixer and even the db setting at the advanced bouncing menu to no avail. The sounds are great but I need to get back online and SD 2 did not have this audio bounce problem.

Is anyone else experiencing this problem?

[John]

Hi,

how are you Bouncing? Through mixer to separate outputs? Or per channel, pre-mixer?

BR,
John

John Rammelt - Toontrack
Technical Advisor

[Bill McCarthy]

I am bouncing through the mixer. At this point, just looking for an output A1-2 stereo bounce. I click no bleed and it it appears to bounce all the files as”interim” but the level is way too low.

Am I doing something wrong? Never had a problem with SD2??

[David Snow]

@Olle said:
>The choice is individual parts PRE mixer, or a stereo file POST mixer.

Bouncing through the mixer is not limited to giving a single stereo
file as output. The mixer in Superior Drummer has 16 stereo outputs
and all of those, that are in use, will result in a bounced file.

>…the individually bounced parts sound way less impressive compared
> to the George Massenberg pre sets… I get muddy, dull sounding tracks
> instead of the nice polish George gave the tracks.

Apart from your own explanations for this, could it be that you are
bouncing with “All Bleed” and don’t like the effect?

>… do you guy have any advise how to accomplish what I want?

You can Solo each instrument and make a bounce for each of
them as if the other drums were not played. Just remember to
rename the output files in between so they don’t overwrite each other.  

Hi,
I tried changing “all bleed on”, and it still did NOT sound the same as the original tracks.

The only way I was able to make an EXACT sounding set of audio, and export it, was to assign every mixer output to a different out put channel.
That did work, thank you.
But I must add here that, unless I am doing something wrong here, I think you guys have missed the point in your programming.
The FIRST priority of mixing individual files down to audio, should be for it to sound EXACTLY like it sounded in Superior.
It should NOT be a secondary option requiring a user manually re assign all outputs like I had to do.
You are all missing the point. Someone makes a great sound set of drum in Superior and wants to get that EXACT sound in audio stems.
The way you have it programmed now seems to be, that the “advanced” options default at a DIFFERENT sounding set of audio stems.
I think you have it backwards.
I would reprogram your bounce algorithms to start at an EASY way to export all tracks separately, in a way that sounds exactly like what was playing in superior. The secondary export options could be raw audio that sounds different.
Do you get what I am saying? Please comment because I want to make sure I am doing things right?
As I see it right now, I have to manually re assign all mixer channels to separate outputs to get an exact duplicate of what I hear in SD3. Then I have to go back and re assign all channels to where they were before making the audio stems. Do I have this correct or am I missing something?

[Bill McCarthy]

David- I hear you loud and clear(no pun intended) and I too am having tremendous difficulty with bouncing tracks.

I also tried to solo and mute track(s) and then bounce through Pro Tools but I was getting some funky results. I was eventually able to bounce a stereo mix but the db level was way too low.

I am assuming you tried to bounce each track separately with mixer effects(wet) and the only way to do that was to create a separate output? Was it busses or outputs? Just curious?
As you know this is new software and I am huge SD fan and I use it for a lot of my work so I am willing to be as patient as possible as these guys fix the bugs.

Lets keep our fingers crossed!!
Bill McCarthy

[David Snow]

@Bill McCarthy said:
David- I hear you loud and clear(no pun intended) and I too am having tremendous difficulty with bouncing tracks.

I also tried to solo and mute track(s) and then bounce through Pro Tools but I was getting some funky results. I was eventually able to bounce a stereo mix but the db level was way too low.

I am assuming you tried to bounce each track separately with mixer effects(wet) and the only way to do that was to create a separate output? Was it busses or outputs? Just curious?
As you know this is new software and I am huge SD fan and I use it for a lot of my work so I am willing to be as patient as possible as these guys fix the bugs.

Lets keep our fingers crossed!!
Bill McCarthy  

I created separate Outputs.- 1-2/3-4-5-6 etc. And then had to put all outputs back in original config after the audio export. But it did result in the audio sounding like it did in SD3 so I can put up with the extra effort. I just think Toontrack got this backwards and should have made programming that makes an exact sounding copy in stems without additional user routing.
Hey Bill, my other big issue is using Tracking to turn audio drums into midi for audio reenforcement.
Everything went fine until I tried to export the midi, and no matter what I tried, the exported midi is in the wrong place and the wrong tempo. Here is The thread if you’re interested.https://www.toontrack.com/forum/requests-and-feedback/unable-to-import-tracked-midi-without-problems/ Good luck to you

[Olof Westman]

@David Snow said:
The only way I was able to make an EXACT sounding set of audio, and export it, was to assign every mixer output to a different out put channel.
That did work, thank you.

Great that you got it working! And if that is the result you are after
then doing it in that way is the only way. You as the user have to
decide which channels you want to go where in your bounce through
the mixer. Generally speaking there are going to be more channels
than outputs. Also, in some cases there are effects on the outputs
and you have to decide how to handle that too. Usually such effects
are ‘mastering’ effects and in your case you are likely to want to
turn them off.

Olof Westman - Toontrack
Coder

[David Snow]

Thank you Olof. I still recommend you guys program a more practical algorithm to allow users to simply get the exact sounding mix in stems without re-routing. In the case of needing a operate output for each track, the system could just do this automatically, without the user having to manually re route and then UN re route. Don’t you agree that an exact replica SOUND-wise, would be a common need and want from users?

Personally, I see almost no need to bounce stems the way SD3 is currently programmed. I get the drums to sound great inside SD 3 before wanting stems. I do not want to lose ANY of that sound I have created. I may want to “improve” it once I import it as stems, but I don’t want to have to LOSE good work , to eventually “improve” it later. Does that make sense?

1

Thanked by: Drew Griffin

[drdrum]

I have Logic 9 and I play Yamaha edrums to make the midi file of the drum track. So I have 1 stereo track for drums. In SD2 All I did was hit the bounce tab,play and record the track, bounce the track to a folder and have separate tracks sounding the same as what i heard in SD2 to send to my client
How do I do this in SD3? Reading the above posts it seems things have changed and you cant do it this way anymore.
Thanks for any help

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6 EZ Bass 1.1.8 EZ Keys 2 2.0.4
Operating system: MacOSX 15.7 Catalina and Win10 64

[Olof Westman]

drdrum,

no, the bounce has not changed in that respect. It has changed in that you record
the MIDI into the built-in MIDI track so that you can view and edit it before bouncing.
Apart from that it works like in SD2.

Olof Westman - Toontrack
Coder

[drdrum]

Ok thanks, one question then, I have my midi track in Logic. I tried to drag it in the block but it wouldnt do it.Then I saved the midi file and loaded it that way. But when I played it back the floor tom was triggering with the hi hat. I tried my midi map (user preset) and the Yamaha one. Why would it do that.

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6 EZ Bass 1.1.8 EZ Keys 2 2.0.4
Operating system: MacOSX 15.7 Catalina and Win10 64

[Olof Westman]

If you press REC in SD3 and play it in your host so that it gets recorded,
much like you would have done in SD2, then it should work.

The E-drum MIDI transform works on incoming MIDI. The MIDI track
in SD3, sort of, sits inside of it. If you import your MIDI directly into
the track in SD3 it doesn’t get applied.

Olof Westman - Toontrack
Coder

[drdrum]

Gotcha thanks

Superior Drummer 3 version: 3.3.6 EZ Bass 1.1.8 EZ Keys 2 2.0.4
Operating system: MacOSX 15.7 Catalina and Win10 64

[Scott Eshleman]

@Olle said:
If you press REC in SD3 and play it in your host so that it gets recorded,
much like you would have done in SD2, then it should work.

The E-drum MIDI transform works on incoming MIDI. The MIDI track
in SD3, sort of, sits inside of it. If you import your MIDI directly into
the track in SD3 it doesn’t get applied.  

SD3 is so cool.
Just saying.

Thanks.

[Author]

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