3rd Party midi libraries appear in browser, but NOT search

[Ian Currie]

I upgraded to EZ2 primarly because your awesome search feature...

I upgraded to EZ2 primarly because your awesome search feature – I’ve been waiting for someone to make this feature for years!

Please tell me there’s a way to get my 3rd party midi libraries into the search. I need them in there.

Thank you.

I upgraded to EZ2 primarly because your awesome search feature – I’ve been waiting for someone to make this feature for years!

Please tell me there’s a way to get my 3rd party midi libraries into the search. I need them in there.

Thank you.

Topic

[ian nickus]

it seems as though most people who care about this feature don’t care much about the tags. Tap2find is a game changer, and that is the functionality that needs to be implemented as soon as possible. I understand that toontrack doesn’t want to do this twice, once rushed through, and once with full tag editing etc, but let’s not get caught up in thinking we need some software that will add tags automatically to midi files – people or companies can do that if a simple tag editor is part of the solution.
Please just let us all match our other loops and midi files with tap2find as soon as you can.

Tap2find is probably the most revolutionary thing i have run into in years, so congratulations on understanding how people are working with with your software, unlike most developers. In my book, tap2find is up there with touch screen controllers and sampler scripts, so please let us implement it. Even if you want to keep your midi libraries as “premium” products and only allow tap2find, that would be better than tagging files.

[anonymous_3]

@colegrey said:

it seems as though most people who care about this feature don’t care much about the tags. Tap2find is a game changer, and that is the functionality that needs to be implemented as soon as possible. I understand that toontrack doesn’t want to do this twice, once rushed through, and once with full tag editing etc, but let’s not get caught up in thinking we need some software that will add tags automatically to midi files – people or companies can do that if a simple tag editor is part of the solution.
Please just let us all match our other loops and midi files with tap2find as soon as you can.

Tap2find is probably the most revolutionary thing i have run into in years, so congratulations on understanding how people are working with with your software, unlike most developers. In my book, tap2find is up there with touch screen controllers and sampler scripts, so please let us implement it. Even if you want to keep your midi libraries as “premium” products and only allow tap2find, that would be better than tagging files.

I strongly agree!!!

[TheProfessor]

@izzi63 said:

@colegrey said:

it seems as though most people who care about this feature don’t care much about the tags. Tap2find is a game changer, and that is the functionality that needs to be implemented as soon as possible. I understand that toontrack doesn’t want to do this twice, once rushed through, and once with full tag editing etc, but let’s not get caught up in thinking we need some software that will add tags automatically to midi files – people or companies can do that if a simple tag editor is part of the solution.
Please just let us all match our other loops and midi files with tap2find as soon as you can.

Tap2find is probably the most revolutionary thing i have run into in years, so congratulations on understanding how people are working with with your software, unlike most developers. In my book, tap2find is up there with touch screen controllers and sampler scripts, so please let us implement it. Even if you want to keep your midi libraries as “premium” products and only allow tap2find, that would be better than tagging files.

I strongly agree!!!

Agreed, Come on toontrack, fast tracks this feature to development.

[nexttrack30]

@Michael said:
Just to be 100% clear. Toontrack MIDI was tagged by a person…. all 90,000 files. It is not calculated by a computer.
It would be impossible for Toontrack to tag all of the nearly infinite amount of 3rd party MIDI that is out there.
There may be a solution in the future for users to tag their own MIDI as Erik previously said in this thread: “Designing a area that allow you users to tag your own MIDI and to do so in an Easy way is not something that we wanted to rush through. We are still discussing how to implement this but it on our short list. As to when and how we figure out how to do it (easy) is another question.”

thx for response.

i’m not sure why tagging is so important.
i don’t need you to tag all the 3rd party midis.

i’m fine with blank tag column with 3rd party midis.

is it technically impossible to include 3rd party midi to search database without tagging?
or “tag 2 find” significantly uses tag to search midi?

i don’t care tags if i can just find and listen similar midis with “tag 2 find”.

i agree with colegrey that this feature is revolutionary.
just hope i can use this feature with every midis.

out of topic but is it possible to implement this feature to ezkeys?
it would also be revolutionary.

[David Levy]

@Ian said:

Even if the tagging wasn’t there, it shouldn’t be difficult for Toontrack to implement the Tap2Find functionality – that’s just pattern matching. I’d be happy with that.

@Erik said:

At this moment it’s not possible the add 3rd party MIDI into the Search tab. We are working on a solution though but I cannot say when it will be ready I’m afraid. However, even if we add the possibility to add 3rd party MIDI into Search it will not feature the same comprehensive tagging as the Toontrack MIDI since it’s impossible for us to tag all existing MIDI on the market.

@colegrey said:

it seems as though most people who care about this feature don’t care much about the tags. Tap2find is a game changer, and that is the functionality that needs to be implemented as soon as possible. I understand that toontrack doesn’t want to do this twice, once rushed through, and once with full tag editing etc, but let’s not get caught up in thinking we need some software that will add tags automatically to midi files – people or companies can do that if a simple tag editor is part of the solution.
Please just let us all match our other loops and midi files with tap2find as soon as you can.

Tap2find is probably the most revolutionary thing i have run into in years, so congratulations on understanding how people are working with with your software, unlike most developers. In my book, tap2find is up there with touch screen controllers and sampler scripts, so please let us implement it. Even if you want to keep your midi libraries as “premium” products and only allow tap2find, that would be better than tagging files.

Ih There
I am another Superior user who bought EZD2 “specifically” for Tap 2 Find …………, I am also another user who doesnt care less about “TAGS” , nor will I ever use tags to search for a Midi beat in EZD2 …………..,

So therefore ; Toontrack , Please, Please, Please >>> Implement “TAP 2 FIND” for 3rd party library ASAP ……., we do not need the “tagging” side , so that will alleviate any concerns for implementing it ASAP ……………………, cheers

[David Levy]

@nexttrack30 said:

@Michael said:
Just to be 100% clear. Toontrack MIDI was tagged by a person…. all 90,000 files. It is not calculated by a computer.
It would be impossible for Toontrack to tag all of the nearly infinite amount of 3rd party MIDI that is out there.
There may be a solution in the future for users to tag their own MIDI as Erik previously said in this thread: “Designing a area that allow you users to tag your own MIDI and to do so in an Easy way is not something that we wanted to rush through. We are still discussing how to implement this but it on our short list. As to when and how we figure out how to do it (easy) is another question.”

thx for response.

i’m not sure why tagging is so important.
i don’t need you to tag all the 3rd party midis.

i’m fine with blank tag column with 3rd party midis.

is it technically impossible to include 3rd party midi to search database without tagging?
or “tag 2 find” significantly uses tag to search midi?

i don’t care tags if i can just find and listen similar midis with “tag 2 find”.

i agree with colegrey that this feature is revolutionary.
just hope i can use this feature with every midis.

out of topic but is it possible to implement this feature to ezkeys?
it would also be revolutionary.

I totally agree with this comment , I dont care for tags either , and I will never use tags to look for a midi file …, tap to search does it all in one swoop , except search for 3rd party libraries , and user libraries – when indeed it should be able to …., Please toontrack give us this functionality ( without tags will be fine)

[greg carter]

I think the groove supplier needs to work with toontrack with their installers to install their grooves with the appropriate files config to make it available in the tap to find feature. Or if toontrack is worried about losing some income from having to buy their grooves then they should make this a buy able upgrade to have this feature especially for your own created grooves. in the end if youre purchasing grooves from PS or GM then they should have them available in the installer for tap to find

[LordLTSmash]

100% agreed. We don’t need tags, we just need tap2find. You could write another small app so that 3rd parties could write tags for their MIDI in order to be used with EZ products

[norbert nolin]

Any update on this? Can it be added to a tracked FAQ with estimated release date?

I updated to this version in large part to do beat find on my Beat Buddy drum machine and in other libraries like from Groove Monkee in addition to the EZX ones. Look at it this way, the faster I know my existing loops don’t fit, the faster I will buy more EZX libraries. Don’t be like Logic (Apple Loops) and lock the best features of the product to only your brand. If the loops are better, more diverse etc. they will be selected.

[Scott Eshleman]

As I understand it, Toontrack sorted thru their 88,000 existing grooves, labeled or tagged or did whatever they did that required me to update the Toontrack grooves already in my possession (released prior to 5-5-2014) so that EZDrummer2 can do its sorting, filtering and searching. I do not work for Toontrack but I think that I can safely say that there is a presumption being made that there is functionality or a module of sorts embedded in the EZDrummer2 software that somehow does automatic cataloging of the MIDI grooves loaded therein and that this hypothetical module is purposely excluding non-Toontrack grooves.

The aforementioned MIDI updates included standalone MIDI expansions and the MIDI that was included with EZX’s and SDX’s alike. (see attachments)
The timing of these updates coinciding with the release of EZDrummer2 would seem to be for no other reason than to implement
the labels or tags that allow EZD2 to ‘do its thing’.

That is not to say that Toontrack didn’t possibly use some kind of tool to do their labeling & tagging. I don’t know.
There might also be an issue with incorporating such a tool within EZD2 while also keeping the plugin/app’s footprint as light-weight as possible.
IF it exists, perhaps Toontrack can release such a tool as a free-standing, ancillary utility that we can apply to our user-created and 3rd-party grooves.
I hope so. I own a lot of 3rd-party grooves, have altered a lot of Toontrack grooves and created a fair amount of my own.

[norbert nolin]

Hope my comment wasn’t seen as TT did an intentional thing, I get that a serious amount of manual work was done on the categories. I think the updates to the existing packs added indexing files as part of the update.

In my use case a lot of loop searches are done to build cover song sequences. Guitar Pro and other sites can be used to find, what are normally poor multi-track midi’s of cover beats. Then spend endless time building backing drum patterns and tweaking midis instead of playing guitar. Getting to a short list of usable, not necessarily exact cover patterns and modest fills, is the goal. More often than not a few appropriate fills and variations from Ringo are more appropriate from a digital drummer in a live setting than ones from Keith Moon on acid.

A very useful TT web site update would be to associate cover song names with the EZX loops in EZDrummer and online package libraries. I’d pay for that as a separate subscription option with ala-cart downloads of associated midis, maybe even tied to a TT song pattern request service (open to contributing E-drummers for hire) if it’s not there. If GrooveMonkee etc. can parter, all the better to not reinvent wheels. Being a non-drummer it is a task to always know what pattern name to go looking for that best fits a particular cover with associated fills. Funk 6/8 triplet is what song? Hopefully licensed music libraries could be used to do an automated match to get that index built to reduce searches to a usable sequence in an hour vs. days when starting from scratch.

[Miguel Angel Muñoz de la Torre Alonso]

Hi, I am also SD2 user who bought EZD2 just for the great Search tool (Tap 2 Find). I would also like support for this on 3rd party MIDI (don’t need tags for this, just to be able to look for matches also in the user MIDI folder).

[Mikel Henda Gomez de Segura]

Same here, it would be great to use Tap2find with 3rd party MIDI. And no, I don’t care about taggs.

[norbert nolin]

I spent some time looking at how the search works and found on OSX there is a folder in /Library/Application Support/EZDrummer/Database that contains folders for all the TT product packs with a midiDB file for each. The files look related to SQL Lite databases for each pack and are all pre-defined per package, it’s not a per midi file indexing. They are large and have assignments for the attributes listed in the Search tab as well as groupings for the related beats. I think this is what they were talking about with the manual work, which even if was done by feeding into scripts is a major amount of work and hats off to them for doing it. So the match seems based on attributes and prior definition, not a magic algorithm looking at kit hits, velocities and timestamps to figure out the feel of a song being rock or country out of that based on what would still require a lot of manual training.

For user modified or 3rd party support, it seems there is a need for attribute definitions and package name for the user imported package to fit the current way it’s being done with databases per package. Maybe an import button could pull up a folder box to import and set all to user selected attributes for the import so that all the patterns in that folder would go to that named package? It would be a way to import and bulk tag, and up to the user to group accordingly but it could require a lot of prep to minimize the number of databases and packages so the more it is looked at the more I appreciate TT delaying this feature.

Aside from tech issues, if I were TT I think I’d have little incentive for wanting to give up unlocking tap2find/search for 3rd party to a basic EZDrummer2 license. They sell and have a lot of great packs so think it fair that an additional license were needed. Maybe one price for customers who have purchased some number of EZX or Midi packs to have a reduced price license upgrade as an option and a higher unlocked key price for EZDrummer2 only licenses. Other loop vendors that sell loops for EZDrummer2 could have the ability to sell indexed sets with some kind of reciprocal arrangement with TT that might include a premium for a Tap2Find logo. There could also be a need to have some limit on user imports to prevent people from bulk importing supported vendor packages that could have thousands of loops and should have paid for the tap2find/search enabled. Either way the issue doesn’t seem as cut and dry as a matching algorithm command line utility to address but I hope something can be done.

[Scott Eshleman]

@norbert999 said:
I spent some time…
Other loop vendors that sell loops for EZDrummer2 could have the ability to sell indexed sets
with some kind of reciprocal arrangement with TT that might include a premium for a Tap2Find logo.

Great analysis!!!
and I love your thoughts regarding 3rd-party MIDI vendors and a Tap2Find logo.

There’s lots of people saying that they don’t care about or have no need for tags and/or labels.
I will be very surprised if simply providing a list of untagged, unlabeled grooves will be sufficient
if or when Toontrack is capable of providing such matching functionality for 3rd-party MIDI.

[Author]

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