Pierre-Olivier LangloisGents,
Hi have been searching the two appropriate sections of the forum (SD2 Help and E-drum workshop) for mapping best practices.
For example, this one:
http://www.toontrack.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=76447&mpage=1&key=e-drum%2cmapping%2cmidi𒫔
There are different pieces of advice and opinions depending on the thread you read, but to me none exactly covering my specific situation.
So here I am creating this new thread
My situtation:
– standard TD20 kit, i.e. BD, HH, snare, 4 toms, 2 cymbals, ride.
– using SD2 mainly with Metal Foundry, one of the default kits with 5 toms.
– I would like to use the Avatar samples (and maybe some other SDX eventually) whithin the same project, as it fits specific parts of the project better (e.g.: brushes).
– I would like to add a whole bunch of cymbals from both Metal Foundry and Avatar, as X-drums, to the base MF kit.
– I am also using a second separate drum sampler, that hosts some octobans as well as percussions.
– I will eventually buy additionnal triggers for the octobans and some of the cymbals.
The way I understand the whole mapping thing, is that once you load a preset kit from an SDX you effectively load its default keyboard mapping along with it (as per the PDF accessible through the SD menus). But this “kit mapping” is only one part of the whole “mapping chain”, which you can then alter in four different places:
1- In the edrum module (TD20), reassigning notes to each trigger differently from what Roland designed as the default.
2- In the DAW (Sonar X1), i.e. using a drum map (as I’ve been doing with my previous drum VST).
3- In SD2, using the “e-drum” in the MIDI / Note Mapping menu in the Mapping window.
4- In SD2, manually re-assigning notes to every articulations.
Now to the heart of it:
– First, I won’t be doing #1, for reasons listed in the linked tread above.
– Doing #2 i.e. “using a drum map” is probably a necessity given that I want to eventually trigger the octobans through the TD20 and that those are hosted in another drum sampler. Also to me, octobans are just a part of the main drum kit, like the toms… so I think it makes senses that they’re held in the same midi track.
On a side note, I think it is somehow different for the percussions as we’re using lots of random Indian/world/etc. drums, gongs etc. that we wouldn’t have with us live on stage anyways, so these live on a 2nd “percussions” midi track within the DAW, with its own drum map.
– I noticed that Metal Foundry and Avatar have slightly different keyboard mappings (as per each SDX’s PDF keyboard map). I’m wondering if the other SDX mappings are different as well? How would I configure the whole mapping chain if I want to mix SDXs with X-drums, but still keep the possibility of using just MF or just Avatar (or just another SDX that I might purchase in the future) for specific projects without having to re-do the mappings in Sonar and/or SD2 every time?
– How does the “e-drum” preset in the MIDI / Note Mapping affects the default Metal Foundry and Avatar keyboard note mappings? Is an actual map of the “e-drum” Note Mapping available ?
I’ve already been through the hassle of switching drum VSTs in the midst of 2 *big* (and long going) projects, and I want to make sure I map things in the most robust way before expanding my use of SD2 with all the X-drums and additional triggers…
Thanks in advance
Intel i7-3820 (LGA2011 ftw), Win 8.1, Saffire Pro 24, Sonar Studio
RogueI’ll try to take your points one by one, in an non exhaustive manner to avoid confusing further the available info, and emphasize what is important.
Note that I haven’t checked your link, but I think generally people over think the mapping aspect. I am not saying that the ‘E-Drums’ preset is the be all and end all for all users, but, in combination with an adequate ‘pedal correction’ preset (or custom CC response curve) this covers about 98% of the cases.
– standard TD20 kit, i.e. BD, HH, snare, 4 toms, 2 cymbals, ride.
– using SD2 mainly with Metal Foundry, one of the default kits with 5 toms.
use the ‘E-Drums’ setting plus ‘More Closed Curve 1 or 2’. ‘Learn’ the cymbals and toms you wish to trigger. Unload those you don’t/can’t (to save RAM).
– I would like to use the Avatar samples (and maybe some other SDX eventually) whithin the same project, as it fits specific parts of the project better (e.g.: brushes).
well, that is a different aspect. There are different ways to go about it and my opinion is that a separate instance of Superior and MIDI on a different track is the cleanest/easiest approach.
Alternatively you can explore X-drums but you will not be able to just ‘switch’ to the brushes on-the-fly. Well, not resorting to a single instance and not programming different ‘patches’ in your Roland featuring (probably widly) different mappings.
– I would like to add a whole bunch of cymbals from both Metal Foundry and Avatar, as X-drums, to the base MF kit.
add the X-drums, set/verify the mic assignment to be sure all (desired) microphones are routed where best suited. ‘Learn’ those triggers.
– I am also using a second separate drum sampler, that hosts some octobans as well as percussions.
It depends how they are being triggered. If a dedicated controller is used then using a dedicated MIDI channel is probably best. Alternatively make sure the notes sent by the module are unassigned in Superior (they will be received by S2 but won’t trigger any sound).
– I will eventually buy additionnal triggers for the octobans and some of the cymbals.
I think that is covered here above, but feel free to ask further questions when you have pondered my answers (which I have kept brief on purpose).
Rogue Marechal - Toontrack
Configuration Manager
Pierre-Olivier LangloisThanks Rogue for your input.
FYI the TD20’s brain will be kept to default settings. Also I was already using the e-drum preset and “More Closed Curve 2”.
Before anything else, I would appreciate your opinion on the questions below from my original post, as I think it would help me figure out a few things :
– Metal Foundry and Avatar (and possibly other SDXs too) seeming to not have the same default note mappings;
– e-drum preset vs default MF and Avatar mappings;
– availabilty of a visual, keyboard-type map of the e-drum preset.
I understand your suggestion on the second instance of SD2. With that in mind, it means for any given project I would be facing one of the 4 scenarios below:
a) “main” kit, comprised of 2 instances of SD2: the main instance with the base MF kit, a bunch of Xdrums and sticks. And the second instance with an Avatar kit and brushes;
b) any Metal Foundry kit on its own (1 instance);
c) any Avatar kit on its own (1 instance);
d) any kit from an SDX I might purchase in the future (1 instance).
Maybe I wasn’t so clear about my goal. I guess I’m looking for strategies to building ONE DAw-level drum-map for the “main” instance with the X-drums (lets forget about the secondary instance & DAW-level drum-map for the moment) plus ONE “do-it-all” SD2-level midi-map preset so that my worklflow when creating new projects is simple, robust and has a future-proofing quality to it, i.e. it will work independently of the chosen scenario (out of the 4 above).
I understand it might not be perfect in the sense that it might not work 100% with any future SDX that will ever be made… but if it can cover my current needs and I can build upon it and make it work in the future with just a little tweaking, without re-doing it all (as I did in the past)… I’ll be happy!
I guess it all comes down to how much mapping should be covered at the DAW/drum map level, and how much at SD2’s level ?
I’m thinking I should use the DAW-level map mostly as a translator in between the TD20 at default settings and either SD2’s edrum midi-preset (extended with the X-drums’ assignments) or SD2’s default kit-level mapping (which again, differ between MF and Avatar)… It could even prove handy if I ever want to use a another drum VST than SD2 for a particular project.
Starting from there, X-drums shall be added and have notes assigned in a way that doesn’t interfere with the default instruments notes of MF, Avatar and other SDXsk, and mapped as “pass-through” on the DAW-level drum-map.
BTW for me having a drum map loaded in Sonar is a must. Even if notes are not re-assigned and passed as is, being able to see the actual instruments names that the notes are pointing to makes track editing much easier.
Lastly, I’ve haven’t updated SD2 in while and while searching I saw something about “improved mapping for high-end edrums” in one of 2.xx updates that I’ve yet to install. What’s that all about?
Sorry if I might be overthinking it again here.. Being an aerospace engineer sure doesn’t help in that regard 🙂
Intel i7-3820 (LGA2011 ftw), Win 8.1, Saffire Pro 24, Sonar Studio
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